Comic Boom - Comics in Education with Beano and BBC Teach

0:10

Hello, and welcome to comic boom, the comics and education podcast. If you're interested in hearing more about the crossover between comics and education. Then this is the podcast for you. My name's Lucy Starbuck Bradley, and each week I'll be joined by a fellow educator and academic librarian or a creator of comics to discuss their journey into comics and provide some inspiration to influence your practice and hopefully as well, whilst we're there shine some light on some titles that you can bring into your libraries, classrooms, and your bookshelves at home. Today we have another duo. A duo of a different kind? I'll be joined by Alex Harris and Mike Sterling. Alex Harris is an executive producer for BBC teach. Part of the BBC is children's and education department and home to thousands of free curriculum maps, classroom videos. I'm sure you're very aware. Of things like, BBC teach hosts, live lessons, class clips. And the 500 words competition, which has really excitedly, just been relaunched, brilliant competition, encouraging children to write for pleasure. So check that one out. and alongside Alex, I'll be joined by Mike Sterling creative director at Beano studios, also known as director of mischief for fun, Mike enjoys. Co-writing the successful Beano boomics kind of book comic crossover. ultimate Beano adventures told with funny pictures and he writes those with his friends and editorial director. Craig Graham. Before that Mike was editor in chief of Beano, a role he described as the most important job in journalism. And they joined me on this episode to discuss the new resources. Co-produced by the brilliant teams at Beano and BBC. And they're available now on the BBC teach websites. There's a link in the show notes and on the Padlet for you to find those. And also a good old fashioned Google search will help you to find them as well. They are really good. It was a great treat to speak to them in more detail about the resources. And to have not one but two great British institutions on the show at once. What an absolute treat. Here is what Mike and Alex had to say.

Track 1: 2:14

Hello Mike and Alex. Welcome to Comic Boom.

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 2:17

Hello, Lucy. It's great to be here. Thank you.

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 2:19

Yeah, thanks for having us. They say it's really good to be here.

Track 1: 2:21

You are very welcome. As you know, we start the podcast by asking guests to tell us a little bit about their journey as a comics reader. Mike, first of all, can you tell me a little bit how you came to be working at Beano? Where did that all start? Where was the very first beginnings of you knowing that a comics existed?

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 2:41

Well, you know, to trace it back to, you know, my, my, my, and you know, I've listened to the podcast before and I really enjoyed it. So I thought you might ask me this question. So I did have a little think about it beforehand and it was quite interesting to me to review it because I've always said, people usually ask, did you read the Beano And of course I did. I love Beano and I love Dandy. And my little sister, she's about 18 months younger than me. And we both. Always read each other's comics and back in the day the, there used to be a real dichotomy between boys and girls comics and Beano was thought of as being a boys comic back then and so I, she was really lucky in one respect because she got to obviously Beano and Dandy were totally suitable for girls as well so she read them but the thing that I did was I read her comics and they were actually from the DC Thomson stable as well and it was things like the Bunty Um,

Track 1: 3:36

yeah.

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 3:36

And

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 3:37

quite spooky stories in them, and I quite enjoyed that. and, and, uh, I mean, I remember there was a spell when the pair of us, we, we got a comic. It, it was only out for a short period of time called Scream. that was quite a spooky comic. But I think in terms of most influence and the comic that I read for the longest single period, it was definitely Roy the Rovers. And I absolutely loved it. Eh, you know, it was out every week. And I was into football as well. And I think, in terms of getting into comics, what I used to do was, I had a Subuteo team. Now Subuteo is a, for any younger listeners, it's a table football game. Where you flick these tiny little figures on a football pitch that you And what I had was, I was able to buy the team in Roy the Rovers, the football team that the hero Roy Race played for, it was called Melchester Rovers. I was able to buy a Melchester Rovers Subuteo team. Now, I used to play in these Subuteo leagues and I would make match programs. So those were the first... Comics I would say, that I was ever involved in, because I would draw a cover for them and I would draw, like, like pitch. I would set the players up, uh, in scenarios. And I, I, I built stands at the cardboard and stuff. And then I would draw that stuff in behind almost like they were photographs.'cause I didn't, didn't have a camera or anything like that. So, so, so that was it. And then, and then the next big influence was Oink. Uh, and me and my sister absolutely loved that'cause it was so hilarious and it felt a bit. kind of naughty to even have it. But, uh, so, so, so yeah, I think, I think that's my kind of comics journey. And, I think it was, you know, the, the confidence of, I always liked the funny comics, but, but, but I liked, I like, I like the story too. And, and I think Beano marries both of those things together nowadays.

Track 1: 5:28

And did you, when you were making your own very first, those programs, was that something that you shared with friends? Was there a little bit of a community aspect with

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 5:34

Yeah. Well, do you know, it's quite funny, let's say, because. Primarily, we had a local Subuteo league and it was all my contemporaries. So kids that were about, you know, 10, 11 years old and we played against each other. But what actually happened is one of the kids found out there was a local league and And so I loved showing those guys my programs because I would make up the whole story. I would say that I remember my star player was called Ashley Smith and he was number six and I would make up all these stories about him being a kind of bad boy and I would write it up in the program and, and, but then the amazing thing was we went into this league and it was men in the league, right? And it was really intimidating and you would go to the matches and they would be, they would be polishing the bases of the players with the furniture polish before the game. And rather than the, rather than the pitch being on the carpet in these games, it would be on a big table and it would be, and it was like a snooker hall type affair. And that was quite intimidating and I was always a bit nervous about showing those people my programs. But, as it turned out, they made them themselves. The only difference was, they hadn't drawn any pictures. They wrote, in the tiniest writing, little match reports. So it was obviously a thing, you know, the whole narrative about creating your own football club and the excitement about that. So yeah, I did, I did, I wouldn't say I showed them off. I let people see them. I don't think there was anything to show off, so to speak. But I wish I had them nowadays, you know, because, uh, just... I would probably be quite proud of them looking back.

Track 1: 7:08

Yeah. It's really interesting. I think, as a younger person was never really interested in sport, never really followed sport. But actually, as I've grown older, I've become really into Participating and watching sport, and for me, sport is storytelling as well, like the, the, the joy of that kind of spectatorship is that, is the story that's kind of unfolding in front of you, isn't it, so there's some

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 7:29

Well the amazing thing about Roy the Rovers was that that, became the parlance for, for a great game of football. you, know, people would, the commentators would say, uh, you know, that was a real Roy the rovers, thing that happened, you know, in the game if something dramatic or out the ordinary happened. And, and I think that's amazing. You know, that's comics going into, into real life and I think that's, you know, it's really nice.

Track 1: 7:51

that is, that's really interesting. Alex, what about you? Uh, were you a comics reader as a child?

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 7:57

Yeah, I mean, I, I, I've listened to the pod to Lucy and, you know, I feared this question coming because I have to admit that as a child, I just wasn't a comic reader and it feels good to get that off my chest now, but I mean, I was,

Track 1: 8:13

there's a place for you

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 8:14

uh,

Track 1: 8:14

don't worry, don't

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 8:15

I appreciate it. I mean, I was a reader like I loved. I loved reading and and and in all forms like I loved kind of topic books, you know, where you had kind of illustrations of how castles worked or what the ancient

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 8:28

Mm, mm

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 8:28

have been up to or or kind of horrible histories like they had within them kind of comic. scenarios, you know, laid out in, in, in kind of slates like that. So I, you know, I was a kind of prolific reader of, adventure stories, you know, Comrades War, Harry Potter kind of classics, like, Huckleberry Finn. But really I was kind of telly mad and maybe, you know, it's so interesting to hear, Mike, your journey and how you've ended up working in comics. And I just think, like, you know, I've kind of ended up with the BBC and I just, I just loved telly and I loved, I love cartoons on telly as well. You know, I knew, I knew Dennis and Dennis and Gnasher and that world from telly, you know, from watching the

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 9:08

mm mm-hmm.

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 9:09

the nineties and I loved the animals of fathom wood and I loved kind of all kind of

Track 1: 9:14

Animals of Farthing Wood!! Now we're talking

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 9:16

Did you love that as well? Yeah, it was

Track 1: 9:18

I loved that. Cried, cried.

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 9:21

Oh, It was real. It was real. And it was, yeah. And so, so That kind of thing was fantastic. But I guess, I guess what I was doing was reading and then kind of watching these cartoons. And then I, I just wasn't tapped into this amazing world of the two being combined in this kind of format of, the comic book.

Track 1: 9:37

And do you think that that was, was that because you didn't have access to them? Or was it something that you just weren't even aware of at that

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 9:42

I just think I wasn't aware. You know, I just think, I think that there, you know, there was, there was maybe so much going on, you know, in terms of books being offered at school. And, you know, I don't ever remember anyone introducing me to that concept, you know, whether it was family or school or anything. I think it was just a kind of lack of awareness, really.

Track 1: 10:02

Yeah, it's really interesting. So have you changed your reading habits? Alex, have you started to read comics more recently? You've been involved in this Beano project. Has that raised your sort of awareness of what's out there? Where are you at at the moment?

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 10:16

Yeah, absolutely. Like, you know, I'm not a prolific comic reader now by by any means. But we had a we had a fab producer at the BBC here called Morgan Makin. Shout out Morgan. I've got it. I've got to shout him out because he worked very closely on this project as well. And he it was a big comic reader growing up. So he was telling me about how, you know, there was another DC Thompson title called nutty in the eighties. And he would, he, he would like run down to the news agents, at the bottom of the street every Saturday. And then as he grew up, he moved on to 2000 AD, you know, and kind of got into judge dread and this sci fi stuff and, and he's introduced it to his kids now. And, and, you know, he, he was telling me that his kids. Love Beano and how to the point, Doug, his son will hide being a comics within his piano books. So like, it looks like he's reading his piano books and practicing piano, but he's actually really been a say, so those kind of conversations with, you know, with Mike and people like Morgan have kind of opened my eyes to what's out there, really.

Track 1: 11:16

Yeah, that's really, that's very positive. I'm pleased for you. Um, Mike, um, in terms of your, you talked to us about your very early stages of reading. But what about now? Are you still finding things out there that, you know, interest you, spark joy, new types of comics that you see? What's, what have you noticed that's out there at the moment?

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 11:37

Yeah, totally. I mean, well, and one part, I'm very fortunate because my job, I get to, and I I do, you know, it's, it's an interesting one actually would have done it if, if I didn't get into comics, I think I would've loved to'cause my first job after I left. Uni was going to DC Thompson, but I worked on a teen magazine and what happened was, back in the day, the editors of the magazines used to get sent all the other titles in the company. And I was really excited when I saw that the comics were coming in, you know, like Commando, eh, Beano, Dandy, and my editor at the time would always just Donate them to me instantly, you know, because I, I, and so I never really had a big gap between and really enjoying them as a, as a kid, you know, and, and, and then going back to, to reading comics, even though I didn't actually work on them for a long time. Now, obviously that, that's, the weekly kind of humor comics that I love, but yeah, in terms of, Well, you know, I've got two young children. I've got a nine year old yesterday and an 11 year old, and obviously they've gone through all the Dog Man books, and I have been able to enjoy them as well as part of that. Obviously, you know, I love Jamie Smart's work. Jamie was somebody who... I first became aware of, uh, through back when he worked on Dandy and, uh, one of the guys that worked on Dandy Callum, he said, Oh my goodness, mate, you've got to see this guy, Jamie Smart. He's so funny. Uh, and, you know, it's great to see him doing so well nowadays. And, you know, I always make sure I've, you know, got his books. And one of the things that I do, which I mean, it's really, it's a really fortunate thing to be able to do, that there's a, there's a library service, that lets you basically borrow comics, and you know, local libraries are a great place to borrow comics and graphic novels, and so that lets me try a lot of stuff that I might not otherwise have dipped into, but the the comic that I was obsessed with for a long time, was The Walking Dead. Uh, and I saw that right the way through the zombie comic, and it was a great privilege when, Charlie Adlard actually visited the Beano offices in, in Dundee and I remember I was really, my one regret from that was he was a great sport and he let us take pictures of him posing with Dennis as a zombie because at the time we knew kids were into zombies

Track 1: 14:02

Yeah. Oh no!

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 14:05

was really excited and I was taking all the photographs and it was the old classic left the lens cap on type scenario but none of the photos turned out and it was it was absolute social media gold you know everyone really loved it and because I I thought at first I thought Should I even ask him to do this because it's maybe a bit rude but he was so good about it and he was so gracious. And, and so, those were the ones that, you know, that was the kind of last thing that I really loved. I always read Mark Miller's stuff. Most recently magic Order

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 14:33

Mark Miller is a Scottish writer who has gone on to be

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 14:41

to be very, very successful. And, he does a lot of work for Netflix, but And, the Saga comics as well, know, love them, and, you know, actually when you were talking about that, there's one that I'd really like to, to recommend before, and I know you get to recommend one at the end, but there was an absolutely brilliant comp, Yeah, yeah, because I think it goes with the flow here, right, because no, it's just when Alex was saying about reading books and I got absolutely encouraged to read books all the time when I was a kid and So I never, I never found that as being onerous or anything It was like and I remember the first really big book that I read that I was really proud about was the ragged trouser philanthropist like, you know, I felt 10 feet tall after I'd finished it and I got a lot of credit for it. But, a couple of years ago I discovered there was a graphic novel off it by eh, the the Rickard sisters, Sophie and Scarlett. And it is absolutely amazing and it was so evocative because the colours inside that. took me back to the other really influential comic for me, and that was, there was, it was a story called When the Wind Blows, and it was by Raymond Briggs, you know, the, the, the artist that drew the snowman. And I just, it was about nuclear war and I, you know, I was growing up at a time when, You know I'm not that old but there was still quite a lot of fear about that amongst kids and I remember reading that and being really affected. It was such a warm optimistic comic at the start and then at the end it was quite, I was almost scared to turn the page to see what was happening and you know all done by somebody that, that also Drew the Snowman, so it shows you, you know, comics is a real powerful medium and, and I think, you know, there's a lot of lessons you can learn from The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist that absolutely beautifully executed in this, this, and it's a really, it's a really hefty tome and, and, and a beautiful thing to own.

Track 1: 16:32

Yeah. That's a great recommendation. I'm gonna move on a little bit to talk about Beano in general, and then we'll link back up with Alex and talk about this resource that you've co-produced with B B C Teach, almost everybody that comes onto this podcast when they're talking about their comics journey, talks about Beano. It is such a huge part of. British culture. I know it's your, 80th birthday this year, it's a too simple a question, really, or maybe, no, the opposite, too hard a question. Um, but what's the secret of its success, Do you think, to achieve that longevity?

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 17:06

used it,

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 17:06

Do you know, I I've, I've been, I've been working at, at DC Thompson, you know, the company that, that produces Beano over for over 25 years. I've had a lot, a lot of time to think on it and, what, what I would say mo most it it It's almost a, it was almost like a happy accident. Now, Beano, when it was first created, was very innovative. And, you know, we all talk about comics and understand comics now, but back in 1938 when Beano started, all the comics, they were all adventure comics. And DC Thompson themselves produced a different adventure comic for every day of the week. And they were called the Big Five back then. And that's the idea of, A humour comic, and not only that, the adventure comics were all based on prose. They had great imagery in them, but they had very... Little strip format comic material, you know, that we all recognize nowaday when we talk about a comic. So Beano was completely, and, and Dandy before it, Dandy came out six months before it, they completely broke the mold. But the reason I think why Beano enjoyed the longevity that Dandy sadly... Hasn't done, although we still produce the Dandy Annual every year, is because in the 1950s, Beano moved over to all the main characters in the comic being kids. And it's remained like that ever since. And so what that has allowed us to do is constantly... update the characters so that they're relatable, to the kids of the here and now. So, and, and, and the beautiful thing about it is, you know, what you said, Lucy, about people referencing Beano, it's that generations of the same family kind of enjoyed Beano, and, and have a familiarity with the characters, even though they're completely different situations they're presented in, you know, they've always got that mischief, that fun, that imagination, that, you know, pushing things a little bit further, and it's very relatable for kids, the situations our characters have always been presented in, but the thing that's always changed, It's the environment around them. And of course, we've always brought in new characters for each generation for them to own as well. So, I think, I think that's definitely the secret. It's that we have a lot of endorsement from these generations that have loved it. And, you know, what's not to love about it?

Track 1: 19:15

And just the importance of humour as well, and that kind of, I think that, that often, funny books or funny comics, any kind of, literature that's humorous can sometimes unfortunately be seen as, you know, less important, What's your views on that, the

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 19:31

Yeah, it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's dead in. it's interesting you should say that, right? Because I think if you look at all the success stories across media at the moment, I think they're all driven by humour, even when you look at something that came from originally quite serious source material. Well, relatively serious, like, like the Marvel franchise, for example. You know, if you look at those movies, how much humor is apparent in them, and how much the humor drives those characters, and the dialogue in them, and it's still got the storytelling and everything else, but I think it's, it's, it's, the actual humor is the thing that brings people back, and I think I mean, there's a, there's a good reason for that. I mean, humour is something that, you know, it releases endorphins in us, it gives empathy, so it builds characters, you know, it gives us a sense of well being, we're always motivated to get the joke, so I think those, that thing, you know, it's It's almost a USP for Beano for a long time in a, in a, in a comic sense. And I think that's another thing as well that, you know, you've recognised very smartly that, that's maybe driven our success. Not, not just the fact that it's kids characters, but it's kid characters using humour. Because, do you know, our characters are, I would say, wonderfully mischievous. See if they weren't humorous with that, they'd just be bad, and that's not likable. So I think the fact that they are so much fun, eh, and funny, and you know, it's one of the things that I think parents love about their children. If your kid tells you a joke, eh, and I think it's so valuable in terms of learning, and, you know, I've done, eh, presentations before to teachers explaining what I think the value of bringing laughter into the classroom is, because I, I just think it, it, it's amazing the potential of doing that, and I'm very lucky because I came into comics at a time, Lucy, when teachers were, they were different. I mean, I had some lovely teachers, but generally, you know, you weren't allowed to have a comic in the classroom, You know, it'd be, it'd be frowned upon in, in every single way. And, and, and just not allowed. And yet nowadays, they've really switched on. Teachers are, are, are using comics as a tool. So effectively but thing about humor is when you're a kid, when up until I think it starts something like when you're a three year old, you'll laugh 400 times a day. And when you are my age, it's down to about 14. Now, I beat that average because I've got a very funny job, so I'm lucky and I get to see lots of great material all the time, so. But, it's that thing that grown ups take themselves too seriously. And what, who could take themselves more seriously than a teacher? But I find now, the really savvy teachers, who are amazing, don't do that. And the classrooms are, it's a warmer place, it's more accommodating, and they lean into humour to, to do that. So, so they don't rule by fear anymore, teachers. They, they apply a little bit humour to deal with dodgy situations, and I think the classroom's a better place for that.

Track 1: 22:44

Yeah, definitely, I agree. And the BBC Teach resource that you've produced together, it's very, it's fun and it's playful and it's humorous. I particularly enjoyed the section where you're in your little hat going up a mountain. That

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 22:59

I love, I love, that too. I love that bit.

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 23:04

I couldn't believe it, Lucy, they, they, I thought I was to do it for real, but it's, it's the beauty of

Track 1: 23:09

I, well, I can imagine showing it in the classroom and someone saying, He's not really going up the mountain, and be like,

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 23:15

No, well, there's at one point I get, yeah, at one point I fall off the mountain, and I showed it to my little boy Elliot and he goes, Is that green screen, daddy? And I'm thinking, I should hope so.

Track 1: 23:27

No, I'm a stuntman as well now. Um, but Alex, can you tell us a little bit how, about how this collaboration started and I guess what potential BBC Teach sees in using comics in the classroom?

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 23:39

for sure. I mean, I think what's so cool hearing Mike speak there is that both organizations like the BBC and, and, and Beano have. I've got such longevity when it comes to engaging young people and an education, you know, Mike and the team celebrating 80 years of being a, you know, it's amazing. Congratulations. And the BBC, you know, the next couple of years, maybe it's even next year. I'm not quite sure the exact date, but we'll be celebrating 100 years of education broadcasts. You know, the first Radio broadcast for schools were in the mid 1920s and you know, I haven't listened back to them all, but you probably can't find much humor in those. They were probably delivered in a fairly straight manner, but it's just so cool to think about the longevity there and the kind of spirit of engaging young people and educating young people as well. I mean, this partnership. came about. I can't even remember how long we've been talking. It's been a while, at least two years. I don't know if you can remember when the approach first was, Mike, but I think it might have been in 2020, perhaps during or shortly after the school lockdowns.

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 24:43

Possibly Alex. You know, I, I just remember I, when you guys got in touch, we really wanted to do it and, think it was always just a case of timings because like you said, it was such a, it was such a great partnership and, we love to go and visit schools and we meet a lot of kids, but just to speak to more kids, it was just perfect for us.

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 25:02

no, totally. I mean, we really like working in, in partnership with other organizations because BBC teach, we specialize in creating those kind of engaging classroom videos, but then, you know, we don't, we don't have all the expertise and we don't have everything. And so to be able to work Mike and the Beano team and to, and to be able to bring that expertise. So like, you know, we can film Mike and his amazingly talented team of comic creatives, and they can kind of deliver their own thoughts and we can kind of create something fun there and then deliver that out to schools across the UK. And. you know, with with our videos, we're always trying to offer something that a teacher can't themselves do because, you know, absolutely the teachers in the classrooms and experts and I'm not a teacher. Mike, you're obviously saying that you're not a teacher, but we want to be able to through a video resource. We want to be able to Enhance the classroom experience in some way. So, you know, that might be a geography video where we can take you on a school trip to somewhere that you could never go, you know, another country, the Amazon rainforest, whatever it is, or it might be given a classroom access to amazing talent like Mike and the team and hearing about how they create something. And just to hear that is so inspiring and. To be able to take a class on that journey is so cool. So it's just the kind of perfect marrying of the two organizations. Yeah, for sure. So, we've called it, Beano how to create a comic. And the idea really is that the, the resource provides a step by step guide for primary schools to make their own comics. So. We've, we've got three short videos there. Each one's only four or five minutes long. So it's a really nice length of video to play in the lesson. Either, you know, as the introduction to the lesson itself or a teacher can deliver that introduction and then we can go into the video and we've structured it. I mean, you can kind of run them in any order. They're designed that way, but But, but there is progression there. So, so we start with creating characters, and then we move on to constructing worlds. And then we go on to the third video, which is to kind of create the story itself. So you've got those three classroom. videos and they feature, they all feature Mike and then another one of his colleagues and the amazing team of comic creatives. And we've also provided alongside the, the video, some really nice templates that you can use in the classroom. So we've got a guide for teachers there, which is a pretty comprehensive document for teachers. But we've also got a template of a stick person, a template of a thought balloon, some head shaped templates. And that will sound kind of mad to anyone that hasn't seen the video. And Mike, you'll explain this better than me, but there's, there's a kind of great concept about drawing heads, isn't there?

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 27:54

Definitely. And, and, and, do you know what? The, the, the thing that we really wanted to do, Lucy, was we, we wanted to show lots of different pathways. into creating a comic and enjoying comics within this and, you know, because sometimes we, we, we want to explain to, to the kids in the classroom and also to the teachers that you don't have to be great at art to get involved and you might like coming up with the story or you might like, you know, drawing a map to plan where the story goes, you know, the type of book that Alex talked about loving, When he, he was a kid, you know, the, the, the diagram of the castle and you could use that to plan out. So there's all these different jump on points so they can, and it's explaining that, you know, I mean, you could be somebody like Jamie Smart that can do it all himself, right, which is fantastic. And, and it absolutely encourages people like that and they can take it to the next level, but also it's if somebody just. fancies testing a bit of it out and there's a lot of transferable skills, you know, the story writing, the presentation of the visual part of the story and, and just this way, you know, the, the breaking down the complexity of it. So there's. These simple pathways and to creating something my big hope for that and my big belief in it is that any class that watches it would be able to to get on with creating something themselves really quickly you know straight after doing that and then the teacher could nurture that encourage it.

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 29:26

Yeah.

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 29:27

Uh, you know, celebrate it, and I think they could do it as teams, they can do it individually, so, you know, it doesn't matter what class size you have, or what the talent is, or you can link it into a project you're doing, you know, and so there's all different ways to show that applications of comics, you know, the wonderful applications that, you know, Lucy, you understand, because you're a comics expert, also, I think, you know, just, I don't want to sound rude Aex but you've confessed as

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 29:55

comics

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 29:55

newbie

Track 1: 29:56

hehehehehehe

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 29:59

I don't want this to suddenly understanding and having your eyes open to all this, so I think that that's what we tried to do with the lessons, and just a lot of fun, and that's exactly the way it should be, and they'll seem like a treat, you know, when the kids are doing them, and it'll be like, whoa, look what I've done, but the learning within them, and the skills, and the problem solving, and the thoughts, and the creativity, they can apply them to all sorts of different situations afterwards.

Track 1: 30:29

Yeah, I think, I think they're really well done and, yeah, really nicely placed and I completely agree that they would be, seem like a treat, that actually be really worthwhile in terms of the curriculum as well. And Alex, have you got, particular elements of the curriculum that you've kind of targeted and woven into these resources?

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 30:45

Yeah, absolutely. And Mike's talked through some of them. there. And I think what's so exciting in terms of engaging children and saying, right, it might be this element or that element. I kind of feel the same works for teachers because the amazing thing at primary is that you teach everything. And that means you get to teach everything. But it. Absolutely. Yeah. And you can have this whole classroom project running, you know, cross curricular. but also like you're probably not going to be a specialist and everything. So this is a really nice way to access it from different points of view as well. So maybe if art and design isn't your thing, this is a really good way to maybe access through literacy and then and then kind of find this space beyond. We created this for primary classrooms and we're saying it's for key stage to second level in Scotland, progression steps two and three in Wales. so it kind of works for that age group. But look, quite frankly, I think it could go beyond that, you know, to older Children and work for some younger Children as well. And I think it's yeah, literacy, I think, was the primary driver and thinking about English. But also art and design and like Mike said, there's so many cross curricular opportunities because geography, you know, in that second video, I mentioned about creating comic worlds where you've got map making there, haven't you? And kind of exploring geography skills. You've got all sorts of skills. Beyond that, moving into kind of PSHE spaces. So what about, you know, what are the stories that are going on here? What about inference? What about facial expressions? You know, we explore the idea that people can actually be thinking something different to what they're saying. And I think the example, Mike, of your smelly feet was provided in the videos.

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 32:22

ha ha! Which was purely fictional, I would add. Eh.

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 32:27

Absolutely. And purely for comic effect, but you know, it's just such an amazing example to be able to say, you know, does anyone realize I've

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 32:35

yeah, no, but that, that is a, totally, and it comes back to that thing about not taking yourself seriously again. And I think the humour in comics can really, eh, Can help you do that, you know, and by giving those skills, you know, the decoding, the comprehension, the inference, I think that then builds the will, you know, to motivate you to, to actually go and read, you know, other comics, other books, other literature, so I think it's really effective in that sense, and I think, you know, it was a smart move, by you and the team, I was getting us involved because as you said, Lucy, you know, Beano's pretty well known and because of that, uh, what we've done is we've basically completely thrown the doors open and said this is how we do it. And we're not saying it's the right way, but this is the, Beano way. And, you know, kids can adapt that and, and, and do it their own way as well. But we're just, we're giving them that foot in the door And that little bit of encouragement we're saying, you know, it's not rocket science what we do. You can do it as well. And, some of the kids that... take this on board. they'll be in 15 years time, they'll be, comic superstars.

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 33:39

I love that idea. The, the idea that there might be someone that's seen this resource and go on to have a career in that space is so, is so exciting. And I think that. For teachers as well, we've provided kind of ideas for differentiation. So within the teacher notes, you've got some ideas there. So, you know, with younger children, you might say, right, we're going to, we're going to write some simple sentences and use simple conjunctions. But then if you've got older kids or kids that are really getting it, and maybe these are the kids that will go on to have a career here, you can do the same thing, but, use a range of conjunctions and use more sophisticated vocabulary and punctuation or. I mentioned the templates that we provided earlier. So perhaps with some people you can use those templates, but for others, you can actually let them start from scratch and they can watch Mike and the team do this on the video and then actually have a go at creating a template for themselves.

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 34:30

Yeah, it's a, it's a springboard, doesn't it, Alex? And, the thing that I really love about it is that I think A lot of people that maybe look at a comic they maybe think one person does the whole thing and sometimes that is the case but it shows that you know everybody's welcome you know if you could come up with an idea for a story and somebody else could write it and then you know somebody else can illustrate it and so I, I, I love that element of it that that we create an awareness of that you know that you can just because you you feel that you're the best person at drawing in the whole class. You maybe, and we tell them that, you know, you can have your own style, not everybody has to draw the way the Beano is, you know, that's important to us as well, you know, because I think, it used to frustrate me, I used to try and copy Beano cartoons and I couldn't do it, and then you see, you know, you see great Flexibility. I mean, I love Louis Stowell's work on Loki, she does these sketches, these hand drawn sketches, and they just look really authentic, and they're her, you know, she's not trying to copy anything else, and, and it, you know, it establishes a great new character, and a, and a great new format, and I think it, it's this accessibility is really good.

Track 1: 35:39

Yeah, I completely, completely agree. I think that, that the kind of opening up comics as something that can be collaboratively done is really, it's just, it's not something that I ever encouraged when I was a teacher, writing in pairs, it's not something that I've ever done in the past, but, you know, just in my own personal life, I started doing this with my son, he's started writing comic strip, he's nine, called, called Depressed Pickle about the last gherkin in a jar. And, and,

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 36:06

Excellent.

Track 1: 36:07

He writes it, I do the drawings, then he's the colourist, and it's just so fun, it's just so fun, I just really enjoy doing that with him and that process, it's just a really nice

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 36:16

I love the circle there that he comes back and he's the colourist as well. I really really like that and you know, again, that's the breakdown of it. It's, It's, even that, you know, that, I mean, we used to have a whole department at DC Thomson that was called on the door that the balloonists, they were absolute specialists and hand drawing the. the balloons, the thought balloons, the speech bubbles, the special effects in comics and obviously nowadays, that's able to be done, eh, by all our designers, but that used to be a real specialism, but still having the understanding of where they go, the best place to put them, that, that, I mean, that's another kind of level of sophistication that, You know, you know, your wee boy will pick up and, you know, I can just imagine his annoyance, Lucy, when you've not left enough space for the dialogue in some of your illustrations.

Track 1: 37:06

Yeah, yeah, that is guaranteed to be true. Whenever I draw something I'm always like, Oh, I've ruined it now, I've put words on it. so in terms of this collaboration, the collaboration between Beano and BBC Teach, are there any plans to develop it going forward?

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 37:20

Yeah, I mean, I think there's loads of potential there, isn't it? We've kind of established this partnership now, so why not? I mean, at some point, Mike, your site Beano for Schools will host the videos too, won't they? And, you know, you've got so many great resources on there. And I think that, as I said before, bBC Teach exists to provide. teachers, primary and secondary school teachers in the U. K. With classroom videos. So they're designed to be teacher mediated. They're designed to be springboards. They're designed to be a shared learning experience within a classroom. And I think to be able to pair that with with some more of the Beano for schools, resources and some other ideas around comic books would be Yeah, it could be really powerful.

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 37:59

Well, definitely, and I think it gives it the va va voom, you know, it doesn't, you know, what, again, Alex's personally. experience, Lucy, when you talked about, you know, meeting the characters on, on television rather than meeting them in a comic and I think that's one of the things we're doing here because, you know, I still think nowadays and we see ourselves when we go and give presentations, if we show a bit of footage. And we have a bit of sound, a bit of audio, and a presentation we're giving, it goes down really, really well in a school, and it gives a, almost a gravitas to everything, I think. And, and yeah, you know, our Beano for Schools resources are something, you know, we're very proud of, you know, that thing that, Alex was talking about, about kids who, who have a real grasp of the language and the sophistication. We've got a, a lesson called Spag Lolz and it's all about teaching spelling, punctuation and grammar through the, the process of writing a joke. And you know, there's six different forms we go through where, you know, Kids that are at different stages can, can learn the, the construct of a joke and how to make their own. And I mean, that's really satisfying because I mean, for me, a joke is the shortest possible story you can have. Uh, you know, it's kind of got a beginning and a middle and an end, and I think that's something else we try and capture in these videos, you know, that, that essence that you can have this sense of completing a piece of work you can be really proud of, that you can then share you know, coming back to what you said, did you share those little comics you made when you were little Mike? Yeah, I did. And I think this is a great thing for, for kids to be able to, to share that in the class. A lot of times we go into schools and we get kids up on stage to say their favorite joke and they, they are so encouraging to each other. It's just. Brilliant to see, and I think this, you know, to have this, the ability for a school to, you know, to collect together the comics of the classroom, and the thoughts, the jokes, and have this kind of record, there's something really beautiful about that, and a really kind of ephemeral world where we take a lot of pictures to have the kids create something and draw something as well that they've actually made, and I think it just, it unlocks it. all this potential and we all know that potential is absolutely in every classroom and like I said I think more and more teachers, realize that too and, I think our job is to, to make that as easy as possible for them to unlock because they're all so busy and they're all trying so hard so if we can do something that fast tracks a part of that lesson and, almost We do the boring bit and then the teacher gets right into encouraging and doing those little things, those personal insights and that only the teacher that knows their pupils can do. I think that's where things like this are really good. We've given a wee platform, and we're celebrating that and celebrating the form, but I think it's the teachers that'll that'll make this really successful, I think they will do that.

Track 1: 41:07

And Alex, have you got a couple of takeouts or anything that you'd like to kind of highlight to teachers before we finish the podcast? Things to leave them thinking about?

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 41:14

I'd be, I'd be very wary of sort of, you know, advising teachers in that respect because, you know, you know, you guys know far better than me, but I think, I think have, you know, have a look at the resource. I'd love to think that there'd be some primary school teachers listening who would have a look at the resource, would play it in the class and kind of really springboard a project there and just, you know, explore that, explore that cross curricular potential, explore that. That differentiation and see how it works for every pupil. And, and yeah, I'd love to see, I'd love to see some some comics at the end of it, say, you know, find us on, Facebook and Twitter or whatever it is, and, and it would be really cool to see some work.

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 41:58

how exciting is, that for kids, you know, that, that, you know, that the man from the B b C is, is, is saying stuff like that, you know, to, to, but, but honestly, as, as a kid, when I was a kid, I would've gone mad for something like that. And I think my takeaway would be, you know, it's, it's another way to get laughs into your classroom. And I think, you know, kids spend more time in the classroom than they do in their own house. so if you can give them a laugh there and, you know, you know, make them laugh with their classmates. I just think you're building confidence and, and everything else and, and, and using comics as a medium and not being snooty about it, you know, I mean, 50 percent of kids are defined as reluctant readers. And what we know is that, comics contain. The brain to remove all those negative associations we read in just because they're pure fun you know, let them pick their own comics and let them, you know, see what interests them and, and, and the great thing about comics is I think we're in the midst of a small renaissance and, it can fast track kids into all sorts of learning, you know, being able to, to see the pictures. And the final thing that I would say is that. And I think these sessions help illustrate this to teachers, and I'd love teachers to see it, is when you create a comic, you, somebody like me who, who isn't brilliant at art, right, who tries, and sometimes does an indicative drawing, and if I send it to Nigel Parkinson, he'll, he'll maybe sometimes be polite about it, but he'll usually just laugh, you know, always, I'm always trying to make it a little bit better, so that he comes back and says, oh, that was quite good. But if you do, if you do something like that, I, I think a lot of the time you're writing and you write loads of words to describe exactly what's in your imagination and the delight of being involved in comics is that the amazing artists make that come to life. But, but I think the interesting thing for teachers to see is that. There are, there are loads of words that go into that picture, and they're and the reverse happens as well

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 43:59

because when a kid looks at a picture in a comic they are decoding those hundreds of

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 44:04

of words again, and they're seeing all those details, they're unpacking the story, so it's exactly the same process, it's just as worthy as any other form of reading, and, you know, audiobooks exactly the same, you know, in terms of literacy. it's the same process you go through. So all these things that? beforehand may have been frowned on, you know, you know, humor, comics, listening to stories, as being almost the lazy form of reading. I think that the wise teachers realize that that's not the case and the science backs all that up. So, so yeah, I just, I just think this renaissance I this mini renaissance, I think it can grow and grow. And the more kids that are involved in reading comics. And producing their own comics, the better it's going to be for the future.

Track 1: 44:48

Completely agree. Well said. to end the podcast, we would like one comic book, or book, to add to our to be read pile. So if you were going to give a recommendation for something that we can read in the future, what would you recommend? I'm going to go to Alex first.

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 45:07

Yeah, wise decision not to end on, uh, on, on me. Um, look, a a, as I said, I wasn't a big comic but reader growing up. I think I'm gonna have to take away when the wind blows from Mike's recommendation earlier. I'm definitely gonna go, I'm definitely gonna go and explore that. And then in honor, as I say, our fabulous producer Morgan, let's throw in nutty if, and I know, I know I'm not, I'm not gonna pick a Beano, but I, you know, banana Man's in there, so let's throw it in in honor of our fabulous producer, Morgan. Thanks.

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 45:54

I'm goign to recommend Cooking with Monsters written by Jason Alsaqa ands brilliant artist who we have been absolutely blessed to work with recently called Vivian Truong and Vivian's involved, she's the kind of key artist for World Book Day next year as well so I think she's going to become a comic superstar but that's winging its way to me so that's going to be on my pile to read so I can, I think. You know, that's my safest recommendation because I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

Track 1: 46:23

Well, brilliant. Thank you so much for both of those. And thank you for spending time with me today. It's been absolutely brilliant to chat to you. I've really enjoyed it. And this is going to be a fantastic episode. so Thank you. very much.

squadcaster-ib32_1_09-12-2023_143717: 46:33

Absolute pleasure. and thank you Alex, for working with us. We really appreciate it.

alex-harris--he-him-_1_09-12-2023_143717: 46:37

thanks, Mike. It's been fab. Thanks for having us Lucy

46:41

And there we have it. Absolutely brilliant chat with Alex and Mike. Great to have someone on who's, actually just at the beginning of their comics, reading journey, Alex, just starting to discover things. I really enjoyed having his perspective on the show. And also really interested in that kind of couple of touch points down that kind of crossover between TV and comics or TV and reading in general, and that just immersion in stories, being important in whatever form they come in. I think. That's come through a little bit of a thread come through the season as well. Do you check out those resources on the BBC? Teach websites. I think the videos are really fun. They're definitely well pitched for primary children and for a secondary audience. Perhaps if you've got a comics club in your secondary library, I think some of the activities suggested would be great, starting points and worth dipping into it for some inspiration there. Even if the. The videos themselves are pitched at a bit younger audience. So definitely worth checking out for both of those age ranges. My recommendation this week, I wanted to recommend something funny. I want it to reflect the conversation that I had with Alex and Mike and celebrate funny writing. So I am denied a bit by settled on. Neil Cameron's comic strips in the current weekly comic, the Phoenix, they are really, really funny. He's got two strips running donut squad and bagel battalion. There's a little bit of a competition between the two as to which one's best bagels or donuts. And it's just really funny. Light touch. Just Neill's, brilliant humor shining through. And this week's edition in particular was an absolute tour de force where you could choose which side of the comic that you read from, whether you wanted to read the donut side or the bagel side had two opposing from covers. One on the back, one on the front and it was really, really fun. and it's actually sowed some seeds of rivalry in my house as to who's on team bagel and who's on team donut. So I'd love to know, on Twitter, which team you're on. Are you on team donut or are you on team bagel. I'm definitely on team donut. can't say it strongly enough. I ma on team donut!. But that's it for me for this week as always, if you've enjoyed the content, if you found it useful, it would be great. If you could support the podcast, you can do that on kofi.com forward slash Lucy SB, which is K O hyphen F i.com for slash Lucy SB. You can follow the podcast on Instagram. It's really growing over there now on at comic underscore boom underscore podcast. You can also follow me personally on Twitter. At Lucy underscore braidley, which is B R a I D L E Y. And you can very, very importantly, leave a review for the podcast on your platform of choice. Even if you've already done one, you can do another one, five star reviews, always welcome for the podcast. It helps other people to find the content that they might be interested in. Thanks again to BBC teach and to Beano for coming on the show and sharing their experience and their expertise. And thanks to all of the listeners for continuing to make comic boom, a success over helping reach people. So thank you very much. You've been listening to comic boom, which is hosted and produced by me, Lucy Starbuck Bradley. Thanks for listening.