Comic Boom - Comics in Education - with Agent Moose creators, writer Mo O'Hara and illustrator Jess Bradley

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Hello, and welcome to comic boom, the comics and education podcast. If you're interested in hearing a little bit more about the crossover between comics and education, then this is the podcast for you. My name's Lucy Starbuck Braidley, and each week I'll be joined by a fellow educator, an academic,a librarian, or a creator of comics to discuss their journey into comics and provide some inspiration to influence your practice. And hopefully also along the way, shine a light on some titles that you can bring into your libraries and classrooms. Today, I'm joined by Jess Bradley and Mo O'Hara. Jess is an illustrator, a comic artist and a writer living in Devon with her husband and son. She draws and writes for the Phoenix comic and has appeared in over 300 issues. She also writes weekly for the Beano and has done lots of other things. I'm sure you're very familiar with Jess' work in 2021. She won a blue Peter book award for her work on A Day in the Life of a Poo, a Gnu and You, mohara is the New York times bestselling author of my big fat zombie goldfish She writes picture books like more people to love me and Romeosaurus and Juliette REx, together, Jess and Mo. Are the writer and illustrated duo behind the laugh out loud graphic novel series, agent moose. It was really really fun to have two creators together on the show it's actually something that's gonna happen a Few more times this series of comic boom And i've really enjoyed every recording where we've had Collaborative duos together talking about their work it's been really really interesting for me and i hope you find it interesting too it was great to talk to jess and Mo about the Agent Moose series is so popular in schools Definitely something that children's gravitate to in the classroom and in their reading for pleasure time so definitely recommend it Here's what jess and Moe have to say

Lucy SB: 2:05

Hello, Jess and Mo, welcome to Comic Boom.

Jess Bradley: 2:08

Hello, thank you for having us.

Mo O'Hara: 2:10

Hello.

Lucy SB: 2:10

It is really exciting to have you here and, we were just chatting beforehand and I was saying that this is the first time we've had two guests at once on the podcast so it's very exciting to be able to talk to a collaborative team. I will do my best to direct questions at you, and let you know who I'm asking and who I'm asking what but do shout if at any point you're like, who is she talking to? Let's start with Mo to begin with. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey as a comics reader? Is a comic something that you read as a child or something that you got into when you were a little bit older? Where did that all start?

Mo O'Hara: 2:50

I definitely read them as a kid. My brother was an obsessive, DC comics fan, so there were a million DC comics in our house. Um, and so I got to read the. that he deemed it was okay that I could read and not because of content, because I would mess them up as his younger sister. So anything that he wanted to keep in mint condition was put in its plastic envelope and I never saw it, but all the other stuff I got to read. And I got into a big into superheroes and sci fi. So that was my main stuff with a little bit of Archie comics and stuff thrown in there, but mostly kind of superhero and sci fi

Lucy SB: 3:27

So what drew you to them? Was it the kind of the storylines, the artwork? What was it that pulled you in do you think? Yeah.

Mo O'Hara: 3:34

Yeah, I found it. I mean, I was never that good at drawing, although Jess has showed me some really cool things. So when I do Agent Moose now, I do draw and I try to go, look, if I can do this, then you can do this. So it's a good thing. But yes, I was just in awe of what they could convey in the artwork and how much more fun it was to read than, than going through a straight book. And I think, especially when I was a young child. It was very daunting having a very thick read, you know, you'd get a book home from three, like, Oh, it's so big. and you know, once I get into it, I'd be fine. But a comic book was never daunting. A comic book was always like, I'm going to tear through this because I want to see what's happening. And, and it just led you from panel to panel to panel to panel. In an exciting way. Very filmic. I think I was a big film and TV buff too. I got my, I had a varied story diet, I like to say. I got my story from all different sources. So I, it reminded me of watching films. and that's why I get

Lucy SB: 4:33

Yeah, I feel the same way actually. When I read a comic, I think of it like a little film in my head. Like I make that kind of little, little my own film from it.

Jess Bradley: 4:41

And we were always given the annuals at Christmas and stuff, so I, I kind of, those were sort of always on hand. And then our local newsagents used to be pretty good, and we had, uh, they had like, Whizzer and Chips, Buster. And then when those two kind of, I think they sort of fizzled out, there was a thing called Big Comics Fortnightly, which collected a lot of the older stuff, and I used to get that a lot as well. And, then me and my brother became quite obsessed with X Men. In the sort of early ish, early ish nineties there was a, animated TV series that was on Sky 1 that we used to love watching and we got quite into, we started to get some of the comics and then through that and our, kind of, we had a tiny comic shop where I grew up in Swindon I kind of discovered more indie comics I went, I went through a massive Aliens and Predator obsession when I was about 13 and used to get the Aliens magazine. It was like Dark Horse used to sort of serialize a lot of their graphic novels. There was another magazine they had called Total Carnage. Which had, like, the mask, and I think it was Army of Darkness, and some other stuff. Manga Mania was another one, and that, I sort of started to get into anime in a big way. and weirdly, I don't know where this came from, but my mum, my mum got me a subscription to MAD Magazine when I was 12, because she was like, Oh, I think you might like this, it's quite funny. And I think for at least three years, I used to get MAD Magazine every month. And I used to love that as well, because they did a lot of, like, film parodies.

Lucy SB: 6:15

Yeah.

Jess Bradley: 6:16

And there were so many different cartoonists,

Lucy SB: 6:18

Yeah, that's been mentioned by Marc Jackson on the podcast before, and it's not one that I ever set eyes on when I was younger, so it's very intriguing. I definitely need to look into that.

Mo O'Hara: 6:28

Yeah, I used to we used to get that sometimes too.

Jess Bradley: 6:31

it was amazing, it was really good,

Mo O'Hara: 6:33

really good

Jess Bradley: 6:34

and, um, yeah, and I think that kind of, from there I sort of got into a lot more indie comics, like when I went to university, in Bristol, they, they had Forbidden Planet, the big comic shop, and I don't think I'd ever seen so many, Graphic novels and I started to collect Black Hole by Charles Burns, which is like a horror, kind of like a horror comic that's amazing. If you can get a hold of it, it's absolutely brilliant. And Usagi Yojimbo by Stan Sakai is another big one that's about a rabbit samurai, but it's all very... Historically accurate, so as well as having like Japanese myths And legends, but it's, that was a great comic. And yeah, just, just everything since. I worked in a comic shop for about three and a half years, so I, I had access to a lot of stuff.

Lucy SB: 7:18

immersed.

Jess Bradley: 7:19

Yes, yeah, and I mean even now I probably spend way too much money on, like, graphic novels and stuff, but I love, like, Japanese horror comics.

Lucy SB: 7:28

Brilliant.

Jess Bradley: 7:28

Still everything really, yeah. So

Lucy SB: 7:30

question was around what, What's out there in children's comics that you're particularly enjoying reading, but it doesn't have to be children's comics, could be adults comics as well. So we start with Jess, what are you reading at the moment that, that's really exciting you

Jess Bradley: 7:44

I think at the minute, one of my absolute favourites and that I've been buying for all my son's friends, whenever they have a birthday, is Starcat. By James Turner Yasmin Sheik, I think, I hope that's how I'm pronouncing their name, it's so funny. and it's just, it's, it's just great. And, um, the other one I'm quite into at the minute is Lucy Knisley. Who's like an autobiographical comics artist. She's doing a, a kind of young adult series. that's got two books so far, Stepping Stones and Apple Crush, and they're, they're really, really good. And I just got into another Japanese horror series called PTSD Radio. Which is really, really, really good. Yeah, it's, and it's all about this, this, it's about a god of hair. So it's all this horror to do with, like, hair. And it's like, it's really creepy

Lucy SB: 8:38

It's freaking me out already, I've not even looked at it yet.

Mo O'Hara: 8:41

Yeah, like the ultimate bad hair day horror film, it's

Lucy SB: 8:45

like, did you ever watch that film, Peanut Butter Solution, where somebody's hair, like, they put this, they go bald and then they put Peanut Butter Solution on their hair and it just, their hair never stops growing. It's a 90s film and their hair, like, you have to like cart it around on the little, it's, it is terrifying. It's like a proper 90s children's film looking up. It was, it haunts me to this day.

Mo O'Hara: 9:06

like that. Um,

Lucy SB: 9:07

Mo, what about you? What's out there that you're interested in that's exciting you at the moment?

Mo O'Hara: 9:12

I mean, I always go for the funny. I, I'm, I'm not very good at horror. So I would, I would be like, you know, I, I, I'm one of those people that can, I can still imagine Stephen King stuff that I saw 30 years ago. It's still in my head. and yeah, so I'm, I'm a bit of a chicken when it comes to horror stuff, but I love, I love superhero stuff. I love interesting mashups. I picked up a mashup of, which was an old comic book, but it was like a Doctor Who, Star Trek. Mashup comic which was fantastic. I love just finding weird things like that and going. Oh, that's cool. That's interesting And funny in graphic novels. I like the inflatables that

Jess Bradley: 9:50

Oh yeah, yeah.

Mo O'Hara: 9:52

you know Just about a bunch of inflatables abandoned inflatables in a pool.

Lucy SB: 9:57

Yeah. In fact, Jess and Beth, who wrote the Inflatables, is going to come on the podcast this

Mo O'Hara: 10:02

Oh, yeah

Lucy SB: 10:03

yeah looking forward to chatting with them.

Mo O'Hara: 10:05

Yes, they are very, they're just both very funny individuals anyway. So I think that's, yeah. So I love, I love, uh, the funny and I'm reading and I, I'm terrible at names, but, it's the, uh, graphic artist who's doing the, graphic novel of Good Omens that's, that's being done at the moment. And I can't think of her. name and she's from Philadelphia where I'm from, and I'm totally

Jess Bradley: 10:27

It's not

Mo O'Hara: 10:27

And I'm reading her.

Jess Bradley: 10:30

is it?

Mo O'Hara: 10:30

Oh, it might be.

Jess Bradley: 10:32

I'm not sure

Mo O'Hara: 10:33

I just started her, graphic novel kind of autobiography. And that's really cool.

Lucy SB: 10:37

I'll have a little bit of a research, and if I, and I find out, I'll, we can, I can say what it is at the end. Yeah. for anyone who is new to Agent Moose and the Agent Moose world, Mo give us a little bit of an introduction to what people can expect to find when they, open the cover? I have to say, I really, really enjoyed it. It was very, I enjoyed it and it's been very popular in my house as well. My children have loved it too.

Mo O'Hara: 11:04

Oh, good. Oh, that's, that's good to know. Thank you. Yeah. It's, well, agent Moose is a master of disguise. So he is a spy, but his kind of special, You know, his special power is that he can disguise himself as anything, so in, you know, he's disguised as a palm tree or a billboard or a, you know, a giant turtle or whatever it is, and nobody seems to notice that there's this giant moose disguised as something ridiculous in the middle of the scene. And he's very self confident, like very overly self confident. So he's kind of the best worst super detective. And if it wasn't for Owlfred, he really wouldn't solve many cases, but Owlfed is his sidekick and he is, not so special, not quite so special agent, Owlfred. There's, you know, Agent Moose is special agent, Agent Moose, and he is not quite so special agent because he's still kind of in training, but he's very good. He's very good. and, they're in the world of Big Forest and Lots of, you know, there is an amazing amount of crime and shenanigans in Big Forest for just a general woodland area, you know, who would

Lucy SB: 11:57

it's a crime hotspot.

Mo O'Hara: 11:59

I know, it's, so there that's, that's the world of Agent Moose. And his name, of course, is Anonymoose. Agent Moose's real name is

Lucy SB: 12:06

brilliant.

Mo O'Hara: 12:07

So he is an Anonymous Moose.

Lucy SB: 12:09

I love so how did your collaboration with Jess come about? did you already know each other? Or is it matchmaking from the publishers that's put you together? How's it

Mo O'Hara: 12:17

It's total matchmaking from the publishers because we were, so I was, I was, you know, working on the script to backtrack a little. So I was, I was working on the script, for Agent Moose, but it wasn't Agent Moose back then. it. was Anonymous Mouse when I first started writing it. And it was a, it was a graphic novel about an anonymous mouse, who was a secret agent. And, my agent just kind of read through it and went, you know, what, just not funny enough, not quite good. And I put it in a drawer for a while and I came back to it and went, Anonymous!

Lucy SB: 12:47

I love That transformation. That's such an interesting journey.

Mo O'Hara: 12:51

Yeah! Cause, cause you have like a little mouse, and a mouse is secretive, right? A mouse could be discovered in your house and you would never know it. But a seven foot big brown furry moose, Maybe you should notice that that moose is there. So, yeah, so that kind of, and then as soon as that kind of came on board, the whole character came out and, Owlfred, the owl came out and all kinds of things. And it, and it kind of came together very quickly. And, Flywell and friends in the U S said, you know, we want to take this on, we want to make it into, into a graphic novel. Yay. Fantastic. you know, we have a couple of illustrators in So, great, that's fantastic. And they sent me Jess's and a couple of other people's work. And Jess's work was just so funny.

Jess Bradley: 13:32

Oh,

Mo O'Hara: 13:33

And again, like, I'm drawn to the funny, but Jess is just so funny. It was, you know, I don't know how other people make decisions about who, you know, gets to illustrate, you know, who is the person who's going to come on board and collaborate as the illustrator. It, for me, it was the funny. It was, you know, I wasn't going, Oh, well, I think the artistic impression of this is love. It was

Jess Bradley: 13:54

I

Mo O'Hara: 13:55

her stuff is just hands down funny. So that's what you want. You want hands down funny in the book. So it was a pretty easy, easy, you know, gravitation towards Jess

Lucy SB: 14:06

it. And Jess, do you remember what your initial sort of reaction was the first time you read an Agent Moose script? what, what pulled You into that

Jess Bradley: 14:15

think it was, I just love drawing animals a a lot. So it was like, oh, this all, this whole, it's about animals. It's like, yep, okay, you've got me there. So that, that was the first bit. yeah, and it was just really funny and it was very easy to visualize as well, so I, it's like I could already kind of see the characters as I wanted to draw them, and I think. I think we did, there wasn't that much. I did some doodles and sent them off and I think the, the only thing we really kind of changed a lot was, Agent Moose's kind of suit, I just, I think I had quite a clear idea of how I wanted to draw everyone and there were so many good characters, so I got to draw lizards. And barracudas and squirrels. So it was just, yeah, it was a lot of variation and It seemed very fun. And I, as I was reading it, I could just immediately think of how I wanted to draw certain scenes. So that, that was, yeah, it was, it was quite exciting.

Lucy SB: 15:13

Can you tell me just a little bit about the creative process as a collaboration? I'm really interested in when there's more than one person involved in a creative project. how that works, the kind of conversations, do you do roughs and send them over? Or did you, were you ever in the same room, for example?

Jess Bradley: 15:31

It's a weird one because for the most part, I do a lot of my own stuff. So, with like, The Phoenix, That's All Me, and Superdweeb, is kind of, while I do collaborate with my editor and art director, it's very much, you kind of just get on with it. It depends really, there doesn't seem to be one process. within the industry, everybody's got their own ways of doing things, but with, with Agent Moose, it was very much, Mo wrote it like a script,

Lucy SB: 15:59

And was there much within that script in terms of what should end up in a panel or was that quite open?

Jess Bradley: 16:04

it was very open actually, so I think I were, I was, I panicked a tiny bit when I saw it, because it's kind of like, it's, it's quite an undertaking to put down a graphic novel, but our art director Liz was great and basically we sort of went through and managed to break everything down into pages and it actually worked out really nicely in terms of how many panels were on each page, so that made it a lot easier. And basically once we got the character designs down, because I think it was, it was, It wasn't a really short deadline, but it was the kind of deadline where I, I was quite eager to get straight into it. so I, I kind of made thumbnails for myself just to get an idea of what was going on each page. And then I sort of went almost straight into the pencil stage. Cause I, I do work fairly quickly and sent them off in batches and basically any changes. By then were quite easy to make and it was a really smooth process. So as long as Mo was happy with everything It just there would just be small tweaks. So it was it was actually quite a nice process. It was very Just sort of easygoing really every everybody was really

Lucy SB: 17:11

On the same page, no pun intended.

Jess Bradley: 17:17

Yeah, so it, it just, it felt very smooth and yeah, it's sort of, the pencils are the hardest part, like making sure everything flows okay. So as soon as all that was kind of okayed, it was just the, the kind of the next bit, which is the inking and the colouring really. And I just have to give a shout out to my husband, John Paul Bovey, because he took on nearly all of the colouring for Agent Moose, I did some of the coloring, but for the most part, he was kind of picking up the pages and getting the bulk of that done. I think he did a great job.

Lucy SB: 17:50

And do you work digitally primarily? Is that how you create your artwork or is there some kind of part of the stage which, you know, you're saying pencils, is it actually in pencil or is it all sort

Jess Bradley: 18:01

Yes. Yeah, I do everything, drawing on paper first. I find it really hard to go straight into like Photoshop or anything. I ink and color in Photoshop, but yeah, I find it. Much easier to do everything by hand and I, I just find I work a lot quicker that way as well. So even though you've got loads of scanning and stuff to do. but yeah, I, I do envy people who have managed to go completely digital. I just, I find it really hard to, see the screen as the paper size. So things end up being a bit all over the place if I try and go straight in. I just, yeah, I, I just really like drawing everything first.

Lucy SB: 18:40

I mean, what do you think the sort of secret to working successfully is in terms of that writer illustrator partnership?

Mo O'Hara: 18:50

I think there's just a trust. I really trusted Jess, Jess's intention, you know, like she, she was going to make it funny and it was going to be funnier because, I, you know, I would write something and then she would add in layers through the, through the illustrations and it, it just came out as a better book. You know what I mean? So it was, there was just confidence that that would happen. So anytime there was something like, Ooh, can we change this to do this or whatever? It was all very like, there was no panic about it. It was like, yeah, of course this is going to be amazing in the end. It's just, we, you know, we'll work through these things. And, and I don't know how she does it, but she does work remarkably fast. It would be like, Oh yeah, we've got pencils for this. So I was like, Oh my God. Yeah.

Lucy SB: 19:37

There you go Jess, you can sit on things for a bit, you don't need to like, you just sandbag a bit.

Jess Bradley: 19:41

I, I tend to do that. Yeah. I work quite quick. Hopefully it doesn't show in the quality of my work, but.

Lucy SB: 19:50

Of course not,

Mo O'Hara: 19:51

I think it was always, it's always a good sign when you're just newly cracking up at stuff. Like I would have read the scripts for that. Um, a gazillion times because it would have gone through edits and everything before. And then I'll get the pencils back from Jess and I'll giggle at something completely different. They'll just be like, Oh yeah, incredible, Yeah, So, uh, I think that's that's the sign that it's going well because something will just make me crack up a new, like I'd never read it before.

Lucy SB: 20:19

that's a great sign. I just wanted to talk a little bit, one of the things that I think is really useful for any teachers listening is for them to have an idea of what type, which child, not one child, obviously, hopefully more than one, um, that would be interested in reading this That skill of being able to match the book to the reader is really key for teachers in terms of developing reading for pleasure. so I was wondering, you know, when you were writing it, were you imagining, a child of particular interest or something, anything like that, or an age group is useful as well. Just any, what did you have in your mind as the kind of reader?

Mo O'Hara: 21:01

I think I had kind of seven plus in my mind but I've talked to, since then, tons of six year olds who are Agent Moose obsessed, so it can go younger. And I think I had in mind, like, I mean, I always kind of write for, like, How would I have read this as a seven year old? so it's, which I think is the only honest way to do it, I can't imagine what other kids are doing so I can write for seven year old Mo. And if seven year old Mo cracks up, then that's, that's a good sign. And I was aware as well of my son is dyslexic and, Was a very reluctant reader. He's in, university now and stuff, but the, that whole idea of grabbing, you know, kids. who Are labeled reluctant readers kids who are old as oh, well, you're not you're not into books Well, that could just be that they haven't found the book that makes them laugh, you know

Lucy SB: 21:48

Yeah,

Mo O'Hara: 21:49

Graphic novels are a great way in For kids that might, you know, be reticent about other books. and funny books are a great way in. So if you can do a funny graphic novel, like, win win.

Lucy SB: 21:59

yeah, sure.

Mo O'Hara: 22:01

So yeah, I think kids kids that liked, you know, kind of Dogman, and Bunny vs. Monkey, and Investigators, and all those, I think it's

Lucy SB: 22:09

Yeah. I completely agree. Yeah, it sits really well alongside those. laughed lots reading it. My son read it before me. And, um,, We had this whole conversation where he was trying to tell me that Owlfred was a pun. And I was like, no, Alfred's just a name. Alfred is the name, is a person's name. And then, then when I read it, I was like, oh no. Sorry, it is a pun. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Okay, I'm just gonna climb down now from that. Ha, ha, ha, ha,

Mo O'Hara: 22:34

No, no, Alfred is a genuine name. I'm sure.

Lucy SB: 22:37

Yes. Mo, I just wanted to ask you I know that you've produced picture books before and I'm just really interested in the kind of the differences between, creating something that's a graphic novel, format compared to, you know, a picture book and the differences in that kind of process for you.

Mo O'Hara: 22:56

I mean, I think it's really different. Like, I feel like a picture book is for me writing a poem. Like it's that you have to be that precise with your words. There are so few words that you have to be like. No, those two words aren't serving any purpose, so they're gone, or this, isn't for you anything. So as a writer, it's a different thing. Writing the graphic novel felt really at home to me, because I used to be an actor And I used to write scripts, So writing it as a script felt like going back to what I did before I wrote books. So it actually just felt like a really natural. thing, writing a script and writing all the dialogue and everything in a graphic novel. a picture book has less dialogue generally and it's, just so precise so it was a very different skillset for my writing. As far as the collaborating with illustrators, I don't feel like, I had that much collaboration in the picture books because, it was kind of just turned over to the illustrator And then it was kind of between the illustrator and the art director and the editor and it wasn't as collaborative. It was very much like, handing over and then seeing and then coming back. So yeah, it's an interesting, interesting, process, both like a totally different process for writing. And I think You know, way different for the illustrator too because I imagine, you know, Jess is looking at this very cinematically and she's like, building up the panels and, and it's great. I mean, because Jess has worked on picture books too. So I imagine it's a different process from her point of view. Is that. right?

Jess Bradley: 24:20

Yeah, I haven't worked on that many picture books to be honest, they've, I've worked on a lot of activity books and stuff. I wanted to get into picture books when I was sort of in uni and left uni, but I don't know, I could never quite get into working that way, it always ended up being. More like comics,

Lucy SB: 24:42

Hmm.

Jess Bradley: 24:42

weirdly. But yeah, it does feel like a very different process.

Mo O'Hara: 24:46

Yeah.

Jess Bradley: 24:46

I think with sort of comics and graphic novels, I think you have to have that kind of level of back and forth, really, because there's so much to it.

Lucy SB: 24:54

And Mo, when you're writing your script, do you have thoughts in your head, uh, about that, what that's going to look like when you're writing?

Mo O'Hara: 25:01

did have thoughts in my head, but I didn't kind of want to impose those thoughts because I thought, well, Jess is a visual person, so Jess is, like, I didn't think it would be helpful if I wrote, and then you Have a close up of Agent Moose growling or something, you know, like, I thought that's, it's, like, too prescriptive, I mean, she's gonna have, Jess is gonna have her own vision of this, and if there was something that I was like, oh my god, no, that's not what I would have thought, But there really wasn't. I mean, it kind of, it can't, I think of it as a film when I'm writing it. So I think in a way of you know, there's a big establishing shot and then there are closeups And, mid shots and stuff and Jess does all that And I think as we kind of got a pattern, like once book one was done, as I was writing book two, I was kind of writing like, okay, the beginning of this chapter, there'll be this kind of establishing shot. And I kind of thought of it that way as I was writing it, because that was. Kind of the pattern that we fell into. with, with the pattern that was created for book one. So I kind of thought of it more following those sequences in book two as I was writing it I could picture like, Oh, okay, this is, you know, she might do this or she might do this.

Lucy SB: 26:12

So it's rather rather than directing it, you're kind of predicting, uh, what Jess is going to interpret.

Mo O'Hara: 26:16

I guess for the first one, it was really like everything in the air because there wasn't even a prediction. It was just like, well, we know what the characters look like And we love the characters. So then it's, how are you going to Yeah, I, I, yeah, I didn't feel like it was my place to kind of, step on Jess's creativity because she's going to come up with something independently that's funnier and, layer that on top of the lines, then that's going to make it better than me trying to prescribe something I think would be visually funny, you know,

Lucy SB: 26:45

Yeah, you know, it's such a great combo. I love this sounds amazing. Sounds like a perfect partnership. I'd love to explore a little bit how you came to be a writer, Mo, and illustrator, Jess, and the role, that education played in that I think it's really useful to hear, you know, positive and negative experiences early years?

Mo O'Hara: 27:08

I, well, I, I, I had a very good and bad, so I, like I talked about before, I had a varied story diet, and that was encouraged and, and I, you know, I don't think people took comic books out of my hand as a kid, which I know a lot of people have had that experience of where they're like, no, don't read that. That's a waste of your time or whatever. So I was very lucky that I didn't have that. Teachers weren't taking comic books out of my hand or my parents weren't taking comic books out of my hand or. You know, books that were deemed lower than my reading age or whatever. I feel like we don't go around reading Proust just because we're capable of reading Proust. We want to read stuff that's different sometimes. So yeah, so I did the whole reading levels thing. I've had kids come up and say, Oh. I'd really love to read your book, but it's on the red shelf and now I'm on blue.

Lucy SB: 27:51

Yeah.

Mo O'Hara: 27:52

It's like, Okay, so for teachers out there, please, please let kids read stuff off the lower shelves, please. cause they might just want to have fun and, and that's okay. so I think I was lucky with that. I was never tested for dyslexia and it. was only when my son was tested that I kind of thought, Oh, you know What I do some of those things. And I always had processing problems as far as remembering sequences and, in my handwriting. my spelling was terrible. as a kid. it? still isn't great. And my handwriting was terrible. And so I did have teachers, some teachers, not all teachers. I had some amazing teachers. some teachers tell me, Oh, well then you can't be a writer because you can't spell and your handwriting is terrible. And, and then, you know, I discovered this wonderful thing called spellcheck like,

Lucy SB: 28:34

Yeah.

Mo O'Hara: 28:37

and, and kind of went, Oh Yeah. I can do this. But it took until I was in my thirties not that that time was wasted because I became an actor and I think that really informed my writing as well. I, was storytelling in other ways. and that was all very encouraged. Like I said, I, I had people that encouraged me to be the narrator in a play, to tell the, story, to, to write my own stuff, but to speak it. You know, so I did have a lot of encouragement And I think sometimes for kids, that's a great thing. Assets, hearing your work read aloud is really amazing when I go into workshops And stuff and I'm, you know, working with kids, I always like to say, can I read this out loud because this is a really funny bit or this is a really, you know, intense bit, suspenseful bit. how the kid reacts to hearing his peers or her peers read, you know, hear something read really strongly, It's, it's, it means a lot to them. I think that hearing that work read out loud is really affirming and makes you think, Oh, I can do this. and it, and and they think to themselves, Oh, it does sound good.

Lucy SB: 29:35

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, that's really powerful. And Jess, what about you? How did you come to be? an illustrator. You mentioned, university. what was your journey and what role did your early education have in that?

Jess Bradley: 29:50

I can always just remember drawing. and yeah, school was actually pretty good. I was, I've always been a big reader and I was always Any excuse to draw and all through school. That was fine. It was weirdly when I got to university that the course I was on it was a really great illustration course that they were really against comics.

Lucy SB: 30:10

That's interesting.

Jess Bradley: 30:11

yeah, they tended to push you more towards. traditional illustration. they just didn't seem to like comics for some reason. And, a few people I spoke to had mentioned that. So, yeah, that was really strange. And I went to art college, of after school and before I went to uni and that was very, I did a lot of comic based work there. yeah, it was a bit of an odd one at uni. I still loved my experience there and I mean, my work is so far removed

Lucy SB: 30:37

just, I was just going to ask you, did you have, because you've got a very distinctive style. When did that start to form? Was that, so obviously not at university, but what you're saying a bit later on.

Jess Bradley: 30:47

yeah, I think it's always been there. because I got into self publishing when I worked in the comic shop. We had like a small press that they were very keen on getting like self published stuff in. And I started to do more. I've got into publishing mostly through doing a lot of activity books. And then it was, the first, the first year I went completely self employed. I'd had a really busy year, and I think it was like 2012? And then, 2013, the year I decided to be self employed, I had nothing coming in. And it was like, Oh my god, what have I done? And I just started to do some little comics for myself, to self publish. I put them in a little book called May Contain Sharks. And I just ended up sending off a few of them to the Phoenix. And they replied and it was just like, oh,

Lucy SB: 31:33

Amazing.

Jess Bradley: 31:34

yeah, it kind of went from there. But yeah, it's, it hasn't been a completely smooth road. I think I just started, like I say, self publishing because I was like, wow, I've kind of, at least I've got control over what I put out.

Lucy SB: 31:49

Yeah.

Jess Bradley: 31:50

And I, you know, I was still, contacting publishers, but that really helped, that seemed to be the kind of push into comics,

Lucy SB: 31:57

did you sell those through comic shops and through like,

Jess Bradley: 32:01

yeah, um, yeah, me and my husband have been doing comic cons for years. and so that, that was really good and you pick, you know, you pick up stuff from other people and you just realize how much awesome stuff is out there and yeah, I think it just really helped because I think I, I was doing the kind of work that I wanted to read and it was great. yeah, I owe a lot to self publishing really. It really helped me. Yeah, I just sort of developed my style and the kind of stuff I wanted to do. So, not that, I mean, like I say, I loved my uni experience. But yeah, and,

Lucy SB: 32:31

You found your own voice a bit more when you're sort of out on your

Jess Bradley: 32:34

yeah, definitely. Yeah, I, I think working in a comic shop definitely helped as well, because like I said, I had access to, well, I'd never seen so much manga in one place because when I was a teenager, like Waterstones had about four manga books. and yeah, it was just so nice to have everything,

Lucy SB: 32:55

and Mo shared some of her learnings or things that she's picked up from doing school visits there. Have you, is that something that you've done a lot of, visiting schools, doing sessions with children? Do you find that a useful thing to

Jess Bradley: 33:07

Oh no, I love it. I really love doing workshops in schools. I haven't done as many in the last few years, sort of given the pandemic and everything, but it's so much fun and the kids are always so enthusiastic and One thing I try, I definitely try and do in my work, and that I have to remember to do when I'm working with kids is not underestimate them, because, God, they're so funny. They're really clever and everything, and it's like, my son will come out with things, and it's just like, amazing, and it's so nice to be able to work with them. on like comics and stuff and like the Phoenix Fest, that we did in April, that was so much fun. Just because the kids are great. They're, they're just, they, they're just up for everything. it's, the stuff they come out with is just amazing and you're kind of like, Oh God, these are going to be such talented people. And yeah, it's, it's really, really nice. And I'm, I'm hoping to start, uh, I've been talking to my son's head teacher about doing an art club in their school. So.

Mo O'Hara: 34:06

discussion.

Jess Bradley: 34:07

Fingers crossed that that'll, that'll

Lucy SB: 34:09

be brilliant.

Jess Bradley: 34:10

happen, because yeah, it's just, and I think I would have loved that as a kid, we didn't really have anything like that, we didn't have people coming in, especially artists, we didn't, we didn't have anything like that, and I just know that would have made a massive difference to me as well,

Mo O'Hara: 34:25

Acknowledge it, like you know, like some of the kids. Are shy about sharing their drawings and then you see these kids doing these epic creations you know, they're drawing their own little superhero character or something and then they have, you know, sketchbooks full of really cool stuff. and yeah, it's amazing to kind of just see the creativity and that's brilliant character. I want to see that in a bookshop in 10 years.

Jess Bradley: 34:47

Yeah. I I think it's, it, it's been able to encourage as well. You'll get some, some children who'll be like, oh, how do you draw so well, my stuff's not very good at all. And I'm like, look, you are, you are 10, I'm 43. I've had a lot of practice. You know, and it's like if you are drawing like you are now, you only.

Mo O'Hara: 35:05

Yeah.

Jess Bradley: 35:07

And your stuff, you know, you're going to find different inspiration that you draw from and your work's going to change. It's not, it doesn't have to be perfect straight away. and yeah, it's, it's, I think it's the same with reading as well. It's like Mo was saying, You know, if kids want to just read stuff, they should, just read it and

Mo O'Hara: 35:24

it's getting kids that say they can't write and then I get them to create. you know, I'll draw like a four panel thing on it and we create sort of a four panel comic strip as part of one of the workshops that I do. and they'll write dialogue, you know, they'll come up with really funny dialogue in the word bubbles. Oh no, but I can't write. No, you just wrote a whole scene.

Jess Bradley: 35:43

Yeah,

Mo O'Hara: 35:44

literally wrote a whole scene. Look at this. This is really funny. This is, you know, so just going, Oh, maybe I can write. It's like, yeah, you can. You can do this.

Jess Bradley: 35:54

yeah,

Lucy SB: 35:55

yeah. I think comics is one of those things because it's very different to a lot of the types of writing that's done in school, it is a real chance for for children to get stories out that, that they struggle to within other more traditional forms of writing. So you get those really wow moments where they like surprise themselves.

Mo O'Hara: 36:13

Yeah. And I love kind of picking up graphic novels and stuff as well when some people go, oh, but I'd really love for the kids to move on and I'm thinking, well, you know, I know plenty of adults who read mostly graphic novels. Ha ha

Jess Bradley: 36:28

I know, I never moved on, yeah. Yeah.

Mo O'Hara: 36:30

yeah. like,

Lucy SB: 36:32

And look at us now, we're so, we're successful. I'm just adding myself into your success there. So at the end of the podcast, I always ask guests to kind of pick out a couple of key points, take outs or things that they want educators to be thinking about, as they finish listening to this episode of the podcast. I don't know any takers who wants to start. I think anything could be a summary of stuff we've already discussed or, something maybe you haven't had a chance to say yet. Up to you.

Jess Bradley: 37:03

you know, new crew. A lot of creativity comes from lots of different places, really, and, you know, I think, like Mo was saying, you know, having good selections of, of books, and comics, that just hits on different interests for different children, and, you know, someone who, like Mo was saying, might not want to read a wall of text, suddenly they've got, like, You know, Agent Moose or investigators or something like that, that would, you know, perhaps.

Lucy SB: 37:32

Pique their interest.

Jess Bradley: 37:33

But yeah, it'd be the way into maybe tackling the books that they're a bit more daunted by.

Mo O'Hara: 37:39

No, I totally agree. And I think it's, I don't know if you guys, do you know Daniel Penick, the rights of the reader? Have you come across that? It's a beautifully illustrated version by. Quentin Blake, but there's, you know, it's, I really think that should be, like, in every classroom. There's posters of that, and encourage kids to kind of take books at their own pace. And, and dabble and that that's okay. If a book isn't floating your boat, put it down. I mean, cause I, I, again, I've had conversations with kids where they're like, Ooh, but what if I don't like it? Then I have to read it all the way through. And it just means that the kid who reads the football books will just continue to always read the football books. The kid who reads the pony books will just continue to read the pony books. And if you, if you like, like, as in Jess said, have a varied. spectrum of, of different types of books and, and different types of stories, you know, fact stories and fiction stories and mixed up bits of both and, you know, picture books for older kids and graphic novels and everything. It's letting the kids dabble and see what what they want. And I think that's, that's fair. And I also think it's, you know, mashups are valid. And, I've had kids who've kind of said, Oh, but I want to write my own book about Spider Man. And I'm like, do it. I think that's a fantastic way to do it because you're taking a character that you know really well. So You don't have to worry about the character. It's like doing a masterclass in plotting and world building. Cause you have this existing character. You're just going to concentrate on the plot. And then you could say, I'm going to write a, my own story in the Star Trek universe or whatever. Okay, so you've got that world building, now you're going to put new characters into it. I think it's a really useful tool and it's a really valid way of just concentrating on one aspect of your writing and honing it.

Lucy SB: 39:25

Yeah. Completely agree. Yeah, I think that's a great flag. Thank you for both of those. The final thing that we do on the podcast is, if we were to add one comic Or book about comics. To our to be read piles tomorrow, what would you recommend us to add to our list? But you're only allowed to choose one. There's been some absolute flaunting of the rules on this, so I'm having a crackdown for season three.

Mo O'Hara: 39:54

Oh.

Lucy SB: 39:55

Uh, one book that you would recommend people check out.

Jess Bradley: 39:59

Okay, I've got one. It's not, it's not necessarily a kid

Lucy SB: 40:03

That's okay?

Jess Bradley: 40:04

graphic novel. Is that okay? It's Hey Wait! by Jason. He's done quite a few books, and Hey Wait was the first one I ever read of his, and it is just the most devastating, graphic novel, and it's fantastic, and I love it.

Lucy SB: 40:19

I have not heard of that. Thank you so much for that, and Mo, have you got one to recommend

Mo O'Hara: 40:24

I would, I would go for the inflatables because again, I'm just going for the funny, if it makes me crack up. Yeah, I think if you're a kid and you haven't picked up the inflatables yet, they're really funny, So

Lucy SB: 40:34

Yeah, they are really funny, And of puns as well in there, lots of funny language

Mo O'Hara: 40:39

pun. I'm all about the puns. And I found out the author of the book that I was talking about. It's Shelly Bond. Shelly Bond. And she's, yeah, And it, and the book is called Fast Times in Comic Book Editing, and it's her bio and it's really cool. It's, it's, you know, it, it also really goes into the comic book making process, like back in the nineties, is, which is really cool, She talks about kind of, you know, physically having to do things and she was an assistant editor for a while and schlepping things around and scissors and carving knives and, and doing things. So yeah, interesting.

Lucy SB: 41:16

That sounds really good. Thank you so much for those recommendations. And thank you both for coming on the podcast. It's been an absolute pleasure to chat with you. Thank you very much for, for spending time talking to me.

Jess Bradley: 41:26

no, I thought it's been lovely.

Mo O'Hara: 41:28

Thank you for having us its a

41:32

There you have it.. That was such a fun conversation and just brilliant to have those creators there at the same time, talking from their different perspectives. As I mentioned in the episode next week, we have another creative duo and it's one that mohara actually recommended. The writing duo, Beth Garrod and Jess Hitchman behind the inflatable series. That Mo talked about will actually be joining us on the podcast next week. It's a really good conversation and a little bit of a different perspective, thinking about how writing can be done in collaboration, building on some of the themes that Helen Jones spoke about in episode three of the podcast, it's really coming together as a nice strand through this series of the podcasts. So I'm really looking forward to that. If you haven't had a chance to check out the agent. Moose series, yet, please do it's really fun and engaging and definitely something that would go down well in any primary classroom or library. Oh, this weekend, it is lakes international comics, art festival. We're heading towards the final weekend in September. If you're listening to this podcast at another time, and I'm really excited to be going up to the festival. My first time at the festival can be catching up with lots of past guests from the podcast. Gemma sosnowski is going to be there has to harrington hattie earl mark jackson emma reynolds Sayra Begum lots and lots of past guests on the podcast and hopefully lots of future guests to the podcast too I will be on the hunt for more people to come on the podcast in future seasons as well thanks to everyone who has reached out and shared love for the podcast we've had a great great start to the season in terms of people listening in and commenting i've had some lovely messages as well Lovely message on Instagram or growing Instagram. Thanks to everyone who's followed this week on Instagram. Keep on following on at comic underscore boom underscore podcast, going to be putting a lot more content on there as we go, hoping to do some. Instagram stories because I'm fancy, from the lakes international comics, art festival this weekend as well. Brian, Mapson got in touch on Instagram to say he's really enjoying the podcast. He's only recently discovered it, but he's found every episode, really informative thought provoking and entertaining. Thank you, Brian. That was pretty into receive. It really keeps me going on the long nights of editing. So thank you very much. My recommendation this week, I'm going to relate it to Jess actually talked at the start there about her, day in the life of poo a gnu, and you, which is a brilliant book. And I just love the work that Jess has done in nonfiction comics for children. And a while ago now I was sent some books published by Wayland's. Called comic strip science. And is that written by Paul Mason and illustrated by Jess? Very much in the same vein and just really fun, engaging. Way to learn about science. There's lots of different versions. We've got physics, earth and space and so on and just a nice way to build your nonfiction comics collections. I thought perfect. For primary age children. and a good one to check out if you haven't heard of them before. That's it for this week. Thanks to everyone who has tuned in. You can write a review to support the podcast. You can get in touch on Instagram or on Twitter. I want to add Lucy underscore, Bradley, and find out what's happening on the podcast that as well. If you want to support the podcast you can buy me a comic or by one of my comics on kofi.com. Forward slash lucy sb that's k o hyphen f i.com. Forward slash lucy SB. kofi.com is also a great place to link up with comics creators and buy direct from them people who are doing small press publishing like me there's lots of different you can kind of follow people on there so it's a good resource to check out generally as well and you can see some of my work on that as well if you are interested Thank you so much for your support of the podcast hope you found this episode interesting You've been listening to comic boom produced And hosted by lucy starbuck bradley that's me Thanks for listening