Comic Boom - Comics in Education - with Writer, Illustrator and Educator Sayra Begum

0:09

Hello, and welcome to comic boom, the comics and education podcast. If you're interested in the crossover between comics and education. Then this is the podcast for you. My name is Lucy Starbuck Braidley. And each week I'll be joined by a fellow educator and academic librarian or a creator of comics to discuss their journey into comics and provide some inspiration to influence your practice and hopefully shine some light on titles. You can bring into your libraries and classrooms. Now the first few episodes of this series are very special collaboration with the lakes, international comics, art festival, or LICAF. LICAF is a comics art spectactular held in the lake district, every autumn from the 30th of September to the 2nd of October this year. This year's festival promises to be better than ever with the best comics, artists, writers, and creators all heading. On a pilgrimage to the lake district for a packed comic art weekend. this event is a spread. It's not just in one venue. It's spread over a number of different sites in Bowness on Windemere. It's a bit of a takeover of that small lake district town. You can buy a pass to get in. But there's also a lot of free activities going on throughout the weekend. So if you are nearby, it's definitely worth heading out there. Not only do you get to see some absolutely spectacular and beautiful scenery in that part of the lake district, but also get to experience some excellent comics, related activities and little LICAF will be about doing some activities for. Children as well. So there's something for the family. And this week, as part of my LICAF crossover, I'm talking to one of the exhibitors that this year's LICAF Sayra Begum Sayra has been involved with LICAF in lots of different ways. And we'll talk about that a little bit in this episode. Sayra is an illustrator, a writer and an educator based in Nottingham. She teaches illustration at Falmouth university and comics at de Montfort university. Sayra released her first debut graphic novel mongrel in 2020. Which was supported by the arts council. We talk a little bit about that process today. and is published by publisher knockabout and in 2023, it was published under the title. Je Suis Metisse by Della core. Sayra's contributed to the 10 years to save the world comics anthology. The wild escape campaign constraint, climate comics, where she created a comment responding to the IPC report. So she doesn't also as well. Autobiographical work. She's done a lot of work in climate change comics. So links a little bit in with Emma Reynolds episode last week, where we talked a lot about that. Nice little threads running through these two episodes. I absolutely loved talking to Sayra about her work and her experiences both as a creative person. she started making her debut while still at university. And we got some really interesting reflections about that process of working both within the education system on a creative project. And then outside of it, as well as have reflections on being an educator within the arts. So a really fascinating chat with Sayra. Here's what she had to say.

Lucy: 3:12

Hello, Sayra, welcome to Comic Boom.

Sayra: 3:14

Hello, Lucy?

Lucy: 3:15

Thanks so much for coming today. I always like to start the podcast in the same way with all of the guests. Can you tell me a little bit about your journey, first of all, as a comics reader, where did that all start for you? Were they part of your reading diet, sort of at school as a, as a younger child or, or did that start a bit later for you?

Sayra: 3:34

I came to comics really late, so I was about, I think 1920 for me that's late. And, I basically, I, I wasn't really into reading at all, growing up because I was forced to read like, quite a lot. So it was the last thing I would wanna do

Lucy: 3:52

Mm-hmm.

Sayra: 3:53

for a bit of fun. And for me, things like change when, like, when I actually to enjoy reading, I discovered. Autobiographical, stories about women just having not a great time. So it was like the Chinese Cinderella then, you know with comic specifically, it came to discovering Craig Thompson's Blankets and Persepolis by Marjane Satrapi. And it was, I guess for me, what really brought me to, to reading, whether it was prose or comics, was how I could really, like, I don't know how it's, it was that like kind of relatability. It was somebody's like, personal story. It was, just kind of like the shared humanity within it and how I can basically experience someone's life, or a part of it. What, what they choose to share. yeah, so it was in the university library that I first discovered comics and then I just decided that I had to tell my own story eventually, which is why I ended up making Mongrel

Lucy: 4:59

And do you think that there was something around having the combination of image and text that helped you to connect with those stories like Craig Thompson's blankets? Was it that, was it very much the combination of both that drew you and enabled you to connect with his story?

Sayra: 5:16

I think it was. And the reason why is with prose, although prose, I started reading a couple of years earlier before I started reading comics. You know, as a somebody who, who is dyslexic, I get very sleepy, because it takes like a lot of engagement from my brain to read prose. So, It was that kind of the visual aspect and then the literary side that really worked for me. And then it was that kind of, that idea that somebody's not just telling us how it was, but they're literally recreating their world with their own hands, for us to experience. So then it was that intimacy as well that went even further for me in comics. And I think that's, I,

Lucy: 6:03

Yeah. That's really interesting. So you studied illustration at university, is that right?

Sayra: 6:10

yeah, that's,

Lucy: 6:11

And if you're thinking about your time at school in, in sort of in the education system leading up until that point, how do you think that contributed either in a positive or a negative way to you becoming the sort of illustrator comic artist that you are today? What was that kind of journey like through the education system?

Sayra: 6:29

so comics was nothing I ever encountered in compulsory education. It was more, you know, proper literature, poetry, and my encounter with reading wasn't that great. because, you know, like when you are given a piece of text at the start of class and you need to read that, read in 10 minutes, and then we have a discussion about it, I can never, ever read a piece of text and understand what is going on under a pressured environment. And I still can't, so I teach now and if a student brings me something to read on the form or just like, just send it to me before like this, like I literally can process nothing. I'm just staring at words on the sheet and, yeah. So the, yeah, for me, comics were completely unheard of and you know, it's not something that was around in my family, like literally that moment. I speak about in the library where I was just kind of just, just wandering around and stumbled across them. That was the first ever time that I came across them. And, it was always kind of terrifying to me as well when you were made to read aloud in class. Because I could never, you know, because I pronounce, I read so many words wrong. And I still do it now, you know, as someone in my thirties, like if I read out loud, I still be, saying different words, or muddling words and I'm just not that great at it.

Lucy: 7:52

Mm-hmm. So would you say that moment in the, in the university library. Was that for you, a real turning point in terms of your relationship with reading as well as your kind of creative

Sayra: 8:05

Hmm.

Lucy: 8:06

you think?

Sayra: 8:06

Yeah. I think there was de definitely something you know, these books that I discovered beforehand, which were prose. Like it would take me so long to read them. And I think it was the speed that I can grasp this whole story, with a comic book rather than spending like free whole days nonstop trying to read this book. Because often I have to read the same pages like over again because I, I don't. Yeah, the kind of like that speed of the experience, like

Lucy: 8:38

mm

Sayra: 8:39

helped. And the actual stories that could be told, because I probably, like many people, had this assumption of what I expect to be in a comic book.

Lucy: 8:49

Yeah, I think it, it is such a different reading experience, and you're right, that speed, although I would say in terms of speed Exploring all the things that comics can be.

Sayra: 8:58

Yeah.

Lucy: 8:58

definitely. So you discovered these books, in the university library, and then at some point in the near future, you started working on your own comics. How did that, you know, lots of people read comics, they don't necessarily start to create their own. How, how, how did that part of the journey happen?

Sayra: 9:16

so it didn't happen straight away. this was, I was in my first year of uni, so I was still, I still carried on thinking. What I, set out to do initially was illustrated books, because I always loved books because of my interest in Islam art as well. And it was the idea of. This, um, you're, you're choosing to, like, it's not something that's on a wall, which was kind of like forbidden, depending on the subject matter. Like somebody chose to pick it up and somebody chose to through it, and then they had control of the book, which I see as art. And so I did stick, still stick to illustrated book. And then my first venture towards comics was for my final major project in year three. so comic, which was a zine. And so it told this, the story of aliens and, you know, the, the subjectivity of beauty, through a wordless page, I think it was black and white drawings. And I was so self-conscious with using words like I just wasn't ready for that yet. And, because I just thought, you know, I I, I'm not a very articulate person at all. Sometimes I find it quite difficult to communicate what's going on, and that's why I think I was so visual for so long. I'm one of these fortunate people that knew I wanted to be an artist when I was a toddler, because of the, the solace that I found in there. And because of how you can communicate through it. And so, it came to kind of trying to figure out what I, wanted to do after I finished my ba. And so I started thinking and I thought, I'm not, you know, I carry on studying. I've really started to kind of like, get into the of things. And it took a while. You know, like my first year didn't go particularly well and, I was getting and better as I was like, you know, moving through module to module, I was under academia a lot better. So, in order to apply to Falmouth, you have to write a proposal and this is what you're gonna spend the the ma doing. And it was a pipe dream for me, so I wasn't kind of afraid to write what I, kind of, what I wanted to do in the depth of myself and this proposal. So I wrote that, I've like been reading these books. I've kind of projected some issues that I've had in this, like fictional, fantastical alien world. And when you look in between the lines that there's like, a middle sister and two alien brothers, like,

Lucy: 11:44

Mm

Sayra: 11:45

like two. And so, work from. This point I was always projecting you know, my like experiences in these, illustrations. And at this point I kind of, yeah, why don't I just actually do it and just get it all out. So I wrote this proposal, said that I'm gonna write create an autobiographical comic,, but they said in the application, you can always, you can always change your project, like you're not gonna hold you to this. And so I thought, well, by the time the MA starts, because I had the summer break, I'm gonna come up with a better idea. And I never did because I think once that seed was planted, like I literally could not think of anything else. And so I spent the whole two years, like, you know, this is how I came up with my style. It was like the first entire module, which is experimenting with like, comic booking styles. And, getting into autobiographical comics, like writing essays on it. And then, the first ever chapter I wrote from Mongrel was, um, created.

Lucy: 12:47

So, for people who, who are listening who might not have read Mongrel, can you introduce the book and add a bit of background? So give people a bit of a flavor of, of what the book's about.

Sayra: 12:56

Yeah, sure. So, this is a project that I started on. It through until it was published and what the book is about, it's about my experiences of growing up as a mixed race, a British Muslim, in a rural, town. And it's about interfaith relationship. It's about like racism, like my family faced from both sides both, cultures and yeah, it's kind of, a bit of a commentary in the nature of autobiography as well, because I got really deep into reading, autobiographical theory. So there was, yeah, there's some moments in there where I'm kind of like exploring the idea of like how much you have to share in order to tell your story.

Lucy: 13:47

That's really interesting because I was gonna ask you a little bit about the central protagonist doesn't have the same name as you. They're called Shuna in the book. Was that a necessary part if feels like it's kind of separating the character from you, although it is very much based on your life. I wonder if you could speak a little bit about that.

Sayra: 14:06

so the reason why I needed an alter ego was to create distance between myself and the protagonist, because I think I really needed to step back from my own memories and analyze them in a way where I was thinking of just kind of like the purpose of sharing these memories. So I was trying to kind of step away from them and just treat my own story like I would any other story, like any fictional story that I was coming up with. So yeah, Shuna was basically like this, like cartoon body that I created so that she would carry my story for me. And this is a way to just kind of like, I guess, protect as well.

Lucy: 14:52

Mm.

Sayra: 14:52

know, at first glance, if somebody's just looking over it, they might not put the two and two together, but I think as soon as you start reading definitely the first three chapters, it would be clear, even if the book wasn't labeled as an autobiography, like there's definitely some projection my own story happening there.

Lucy: 15:10

And do you think that's something that, as you wrote, you became more confident in that kind of ownership of, of it being your story? Has that been a bit of something that's developed as, as you've sort of written it and it's been released, have you felt that you've not made, maybe needed that kind of space as much and you can talk about it more openly? Or is, is it still very much a part of that kind of

Sayra: 15:31

I, I still like to, you know, like refer, like when I talk about the girl in the story, I still like to say like, Shuna, now rather than me, and it's because, you know, that was written a moment in time by a person, you know, who isn't me anymore. Like I've changed. It was what released a few years ago and how, how much I've changed in a few years. And so I don't want my identity to be tied with Shuna's identity because she's a static being, whereas I'm not a static being, I'm still evolving. And memories are from a point in time.

Lucy: 16:10

Yeah. No, that really makes sense. Just thinking about how we do look back on different situations as we grow older and think of them in different ways and we're able to view things from different perspectives or, yeah. Just thinking around autobiography and the relationship of that sort of static. Versus the memory and ourselves as humans as we grow older and develop. That's really interesting. In terms of also that transition then if you started writing the book as a student in that kind of atmosphere within the education system and then you finished it, continued working on it independently, how did, what was that transition like for you? Do you have a preference? Did you prefer working within the education system? What was that like?

Sayra: 16:50

I think that the, the part that I really missed about, I. Working, working education was having a studio space to go to. Like I had my own desk that would go to every day, and the same people would go there every day and just be like, what's amazing about university is just being part of a creative hub and being part of that exchange, and being able to, you know, like creating a drawing. Like, especially when I was experimenting, like, what do you think? And, you know, like having somebody there who kind of understands what you're trying to do, to give you that feedback, which, you know, is really useful. Whereas when I, was working as a illustrator alone in my spare bedroom for a long, long time, like, you know, full time for a year. it gets really isolating and it starts to feel like Groundhog Day. And I think it was at that point where I was working full-time on it that I decided I wanted to become a part-time teacher as well, because I just needed to, I needed, if I have a space to get my extrovert energy out, and I'm really happy to be like with my introvert self, but just constantly being in an introvert space, I was starting to find really difficult. So the transition, I think like it would've been really hard for me to jump from student to, professional anyway, or graduate. But I had a huge bank loan that I needed to pay off straight away. So I worked as a, a full-time carer four months after I graduated to help me, pay off some of my debt. And then, I managed to, because I was working like, I think like 48 hours a week, managed to save up a bit to go to Bangladesh for a month. And that really help to kind of just reawaken another like perspective within myself and things in a fresh way because I time with my grandma who was the sweetest and she passed away the following. Yeah, spend that time with her. So after I came back and I also spent like really nice time with my mom. It was just me and my mom out there and it was just us girls, like my grandma, my mom, me and my cousin and my other cousin. Like we were just, yeah, just, just, and because the days are so hot there, you just hot. You know, I've just been in this like workaholic mode all the time where, you know, I had to have a part-time job doing my MA as well to support myself. And, it was nonstop, going straight to A levels to foundation in art to then, to then ma and

Lucy: 19:27

Mm. It's a long process.

Sayra: 19:29

it was like then just like, just sitting in. Warm nights, when the, electric gets cut out and there's no ceiling fans on anymore. And I would just go and like fan my granny with a handheld fan. And it was just, that's, you just sit there and talk and having a month there's like no tv, it's literally just sitting in the heat and just try trying to stay cool. but anyway, so I came back and I felt that I was just in such a fresh head space But I had, I had to go through that process and it's things that I embraced about myself. Like, I think, just letting the story, weave in and out, like a messy, like a kind of like a bamboo mat that my granny used to make. So then I worked on it for a few months alongside another part-time job, which I can't remember what it was at this point. But it's probably a supermarket or a retail job. then I was finally ready and then I reached out to a publisher, and that was knock about, and I found Tony's email, who's the founder of KnockAbout. Somewhere on the internet. And I thought his stuff was really cool because he's published Alan Moore and I've had a few of his books on my shelf, so it was like six months after I finished my ma I first reached out to Tony

Lucy: 20:42

and at what stage did you have like a finished manuscript at that point? You had your first draft of all the artwork and everything

Sayra: 20:51

I had about four chapters and the entire manuscript, typed up and I think I was like a few chapters away from drafting all of it. So like rough pencil sketches to show what that page would look like. And then, the typical, submission process. I wrote a cover letter, I think it was, or a very long like introduction email, about myself, about the project. And then Tony was like, liked the project and he said he would like to, meet in person. So and I lived in Cornwall So I went to London to meet Tony. And I met his colleague as well over dinner. And I was really determined to not let Tony walk away without him saying, I'm gonna publish it. I think I pulled an all-nighter, um, a day before I was gonna meet him, hand binding this book that he was gonna give to him, say, and what I said to him is that, this is the book I want to make and I want you to publish it. And he said like, nobody had ever done that before.

Lucy: 21:55

Amazing. What was that feeling like when you heard

Sayra: 21:57

It was, it was,

Lucy: 21:58

he was, he

Sayra: 21:59

yeah. It was, it was a really long time ago now, but yeah, I remember just feeling like, yay. And then we had like a knock back because I talked to somebody else who's been through a similar journey to me. It's like you get the initial, like over the moon, like finally, and then you have like a few knocks along the way, so it's not like a smooth sail from, so like we had like trouble with funding and, but then like, so my first arts council Engand application got rejected and my second got accepted so it was just like a lot of'Yay','Oh'.

Lucy: 22:29

And that's that process, that's a, that's to give you some funding to

Sayra: 22:33

Yeah.

Lucy: 22:33

work on it. spend time working on the

Sayra: 22:35

that's right.

Lucy: 22:36

Brilliant. So then what's, what does your creative process from there? So you've, you have a script, you've got roughs, you've, it to me, it's got such a really distinctive and really, I mean, it's stunning, beautiful artwork throughout feels really fluid and it's not got that kind of rigidity that comics can have. the fact that like Craig Thompson's blankets. I feel like that he's got that kind of fluidity. Very different style, really different style, but that kind of, Way that it is not so reliant on the usual panel structure I feel like comes through. Do you have any other creative influences when you're developing the the work?

Sayra: 23:15

I think mostly like when I was Planning the pages. So like, to think like of the page, like holistically and the feeling of the page that I wanna communicate. And that really hurt because I wanted everything to be like, if you took ripped this out, would it hold on its own and not all the pages do, because that would've been impossible. But there's some like really key moments in there where I feel like it really captures what's happening, like the essence of the story. So yeah, key influences were things like Phoebe A Child's Life, which is like a really shocking comic. so it was just like autobiographical comics, which were just frank and honest and brutal, and it was just like, whoa. The things these women are sharing, you know, like, I can share this. Yeah. They was just so, and like stylistically also like Phoebe glockner, like the contrast, like the, um, the accuracy. But there's always like so much movement in her, her cartooning similar into Craig Thompson's, like how every mark is like, um, building, um, creating movement. But the movement in my drawing style like came out in the end. It was from, drawing on like metal, metal plates when you're etching and it's so slippery and you can't got nowhere to rest. And it was from like that time I had at uni where I was just making images and seeing what happens. And then the more I was doing that, the more I just love the freedom of creating movement by just creating squiggly lines and there's something really therapeutic. Like, that's my favorite part of the drawing is doing the shading. I actually love doing that.

Lucy: 24:48

Yeah. I feel like it comes through.'cause it's just be, it's beautiful throughout and it feels like it's got, it's got love in there. If we think about some of your other work that you've done, we're in a,, a takeover, a kind of collaboration with Lakes International Comics Art Festival, you've done some work in their digital anthology, 10 years to Save the World. First of all, how did you come to be involved in that project? It's a really exciting project to be involved in.

Sayra: 25:12

I was invited do, some workshops with, little that was really fun. Like I did some workshop with, children and then you know, taking part in panels and then I just receive an email from Julie saying we have this climate change project and we're selecting, certain people that we wanna be a part of it. Like, do you want to join that? I obviously said Yes, I'd absolutely love to. And it was such a amazing project. Creative concern working with, they did like research with young people. And in these workshops they basically led us, they told us what they wanted to see in the comics. You know, things the young people wanted to see, things that they felt engaged with, things that didn't to empower people and to give young people a voice was like really important. So I decided to do something because this was quite soon after, you know, like, I think it's really hard to brush away the first time we start realizing how, well, for me, like yeah, just wild, fires and how they're being done on purpose, And that first time when that like, it just felt like the entire Amazons was on fire. Like I just, for me, I had to do something about that. And then since then, yeah, I've worked in another And I can't wait to launch. It's coming out September. They asked me to interpret or capture the, what I took as a key messages from the intergovernmental panel on Climate Change, the I P C C report. And so that's kind of like the, the next climate change project leading on from the Monkey's Guide to Deforestation. But in terms of style for me, I think you could always tell, like, you know, the, who's the, the, the maker's hands are, like, who's, who's made this art? And for me it's that bit I was telling you about where I, where all the pages basically like the, you know, the shapes are done, like the what the character's doing, it's been outlined and I just get to go in and I get to do shading. And for me I use that as my stamp of this is me. Like this is me coming in with my really messy squiggly lines. so for me, I kind of consider like the world I want to create and let that lead the style of it. Leading on from that, the color palettes, you know, again, it's digital, but completely like blues and greens. Amazons like important because I wanted to capture the beauty that see

Lucy: 27:42

Mm.

Sayra: 27:42

I see in images, like I've never been there. How be, but something drawing like color is such a huge part of it, that green that, yeah.

Lucy: 27:59

Do you do all of your work on paper in kind of traditional media or do you

Sayra: 28:03

absolutely everything. Um, I think that's what helps the love of craft really. So like mongrel was, done all on pencil, on paper, like cartridge paper, all with mechanical pencils. and that was it. It was just like, and I love the simplicity of that. And then, a Monkeys Guide, which was a change project that was done, iPad Again, done. Um, but this one, oh, and then like, I did a commission acrylic on paper. And so now I'm doing something completely different. So I'm trying my hand at my first gallery comic. And so, I've ordered a giant canvas roll. That people can become completely immersed in, within the gallery space so they can like, walk through the panels and control the pacing with their feet rather than with their eyes.

Lucy: 29:03

so you are gonna be at Lakes International Comics Art Festival this year, at the end of September. what are you doing there this year?

Sayra: 29:09

so I'm tabling. so Hopefully, I'll have copies of the climate change project. that's been launched in September to table with and stuff from my current residency. And, hopefully the abortion comic will have arrived by, sorry, by the abortion comic. I mean, an American Anthology responding to Roe Vs Wade. But, I'm also taking part, climate change, panel about climate and comics.

Lucy: 29:39

Do you think that comics can change the world?

Sayra: 29:43

I think all art can really, not just comics, like, I know I should pick up comics here, but comics doesn't speak to everyone. Just like fine arts and speak to everyone and film's not gonna speak to everyone. Like, you know, the more medium, like we spread like positive messages in, then we're all contributing to advancing like our society, for the better. Like, especially with, you know, the climate crisis, you know, contributing. we could just hopefully, you know, do something about this. I guess like the advantage that we have is that we can make comics for social media and really create like, captivating content and get the word out, like as far and wide as we can. Whereas not everyone has live TV these days. Um, you know, so that there's, there's always gonna be like advantages and disadvantage to most, like for me, the amazing thing about the IPCC comic is that, I read like a 60 page document, the report, and that took me like, I think two weeks to like process, because. And then to have somebody to, capture the key messages and like create engaging images with that to bring more and more people in. Yeah. Comics is gonna change someone's world, but just like film is gonna change somebody else's world.

Lucy: 31:10

I like to ask guests to think about educators that might be listening and maybe pick out, something that you'd like to leave educators thinking about, maybe reflecting on your own work with students that you to you.

Sayra: 31:21

so I think, as I'm talking just in arts here, like as somebody who, teachers are it's really important to encourage students to think about what it is they want to say. developing style. Whereas, I think like the key way you could help another person develop is to get them to think about what it is they stand for. Like what messages do they wanna share with the world? Because this is what gives your creative practice like such longevity and you see their voices through different style. Like with myself, like it's a matter of what my style is. There's still those key principles that I wanna communicate in my work. And I think by encouraging ideas like. What you wanna put down on is a way of like figuring out who you and what own values.

Lucy: 32:13

yeah. I think shifting mentally from. Thinking about what do, what do people wanna hear? Like what, what do, why would anyone read this? What do people wanna see? What do people want to hear? And, and thinking about that all the time can be really, can be really stifling. And is, and I think you're right, like if you shift to, it's actually, what do I wanna say? And if I'm, if it's something that I wanna say or something that's important to me, someone else would also be interested in that and, and find that engaging. If it's coming from a place of honesty. Whereas if you're constantly trying to think about what does everyone want to see or hear, then you're not connecting with yourself, are you?

Sayra: 32:49

And, you know, this literally happened to me like when I was first telling people like, I'm gonna make an autobiography. And, you know, of course it comes across a little bit pretentious. I was, what, 23 when I was doing my ma Like, what, what do I know? But, you know, and like people would literally say to me like, why would anybody wanna read that? And I guess the answer, the, the best answer, like, I literally can't remember what my answer was. I think I started going on about like, these are my influencers. And, but the best answer would be just because I wanna say it, you don't have it.

Lucy: 33:24

Yeah. Love that. so the final, final thing in the podcast is to recommend something for people listening to read. If we were to add one book comic, to our to be read piles tomorrow, what would you recommend that we read?

Sayra: 33:43

so I would say, and I know this has come up before, but I'm gonna say it again. Marjane Satrapi's Persepolis and God do I bang on about it. But I think, um,

Lucy: 33:54

a classic though. it's it's so amazing on many levels. I

Sayra: 34:00

I swear to you I have read a couple of other comic books, but I,

Lucy: 34:04

I don't believe it. You've just read that We found you out. We found you out.

Sayra: 34:15

um, so, and for me it's really like she had a message to say, like she had a story to tell and you know, the cartooning like they work so well, but it's just an example of like, she doesn't need to be like the perfect, she just needed to have a voice. And that's why like for me, It's so important to have. And it's the same when we look at Spiegelman's, like he's not the most amazing drawer, but he, he can communicate through cartoons and that's all you need to be able to do, is to communicate what the character's going through, what you know, their internal world through images. And that comes, I dunno, something like deep inside of you, it's not learning how to draw faces like perfectly. It's about, you know, so, that and just there's so much division in the world and just stories like these where somebody's willing to put themselves. Share how, you know, like, here's my story and see the differences, but also see our similarities. Like we all just want the same things in the end. We just want happiness. We just want like a home and food in our belly and a good night's sleep. Books that highlight the common humanity, within all of us. That's, you know, it's how can I not recommend that as my number one? But since then, following on from the discourse of Muslim women in comics, you know, there's also been Sabba Khan's, the roles we play,

Lucy: 35:45

Yeah. Oh, I saw, I saw, I haven't read that yet, but I did see her speak and she read from it a little bit at, L D C, ladies Do Comics event. Um, yeah. And it looked amazing. I, I, yeah. It's definitely once something that I want to read.

Sayra: 35:57

yeah. And then there's also, um, Nisrin's hijab. So it's called piece by piece, the story of Nisrin's hijab by Priya Huq. And this

Lucy: 36:06

of that one.

Sayra: 36:07

so this one is about how she, she wasn't really a Muslim, like her parents had Muslim heritage, I believe, but they left that behind, so they weren't like practicing at all identified with it. And so this was, just after partition, and one day there's like some sort of dress up thing at school. I can't remember the event. in America. And she, so she has a joke, she puts on a headscarf, and then she basically gets really brutally attacked for doing that, by a stranger. And then it's just about kind of like her, like actually connecting with Islam because of that. And, you know, exploring more about her faith and then choosing to wear it from, from then on. And yeah, just the trauma, like just post partition trauma in there as well of what her family went to and had to flee the country. And like with all of these like, with Sabas, with Priya's and you know, what's I think why these these comics are great as well is that it still surprises me when I meet people that dunno about partition. That they have no idea what that is. And it was, it's like one of the most like, devastating events in pretty recent history as well. And the res the, our responsibility like as British people, our responsibility, when it comes to how, you know, Mountbatton and just divided up india and just the of education around and messages that history.

Lucy: 37:39

Yeah. if it's not in the official history that's reflected in the national curriculum that people are taught at school, then we need to hear it from personal histories like this.

Sayra: 37:47

Yeah. Yeah. Really well put.

Lucy: 37:49

This has been amazing. I've absolutely loved this episode. Thank you so much. It is been an absolute pleasure to have you on. I loved hearing about your creative process, about your experience as an illustrator and bringing project from the idea stage to getting published, and, and what you've gone on to do since. So thank you so much. It's been lovely to chat to you.

Sayra: 38:09

Thank you. Lucy.

38:12

There you have it. Thank you so much. Sayra coming onto common theme. There's so much to say about that episode. really appreciated Sayra taking us through us through her creative process in such detail, and really thinking about the sort of difficulties of working out independently outside of the education system. I'm also so interested in the power of autobiographical comic work. And I think in terms of the curriculum, biography is a great way to bring comics into writing. It's also a great way to represent different or missing viewpoints in history and geography work as well to have to present the whole comic, but you could present snippets of comics as artifacts, as a counterpoint to the prevailing narrative or as an enrichment to it. It can be hugely powerful. I love what Sayra said about being focused on what you want to say and the topics that matters to you. Rather than too caught up in finding your signature style. It's a little bit. However it's podcast to the guests that. The podcast. I just like to think if I'm interested in talking to these people, then other people will be interested in listening to, and that's really important way of me sort of finding my way through and not getting too caught up in what do people want to listen? That said I would love some feedback. So, if you do want to pass on some comments to me about things that you'd be interested in hearing. That would be brilliant. And I cannot stress enough if you are an educator or a librarian sitting there thinking, oh, I do. Or do you do quite a lot of stuff? In comics. I would love to hear from you. Don't worry about thinking that you might not be able to fill an episode. I absolutely guarantee you have lots of interesting things to say that we would love to hear. I am going to do a recommendation this week. And on that autobiographical theme, I'm going to recommend an autobiography for younger readers. I would say that this was the upper end of key stage two and into key stage three, or even beyond. The total is Mexico kids by Pedro Martin I was sent a copy of this, but by the publisher Guppy books. And hopefully I'm really, really, really hoping that Petro can come onto the podcast to talk about his work, because I think it was one of my favorite things I've read this year. I don't say that lightly. I am super, super interested in all things Mexican that have been since I was a child. So really, really appealed to me. But it's a very personal story story about family story, about family relationships. Growing up, the family all go on this kind of journey to go and collect Pedro's grandfather from Mexico and bring him back. And during that journey, there's a lot of exploration about identity and finding your place within a large family. And just a really beautiful growing up story. And they funny? And lots of interesting things, contextual things about Mexico and, and the experience of growing up in America. But also being Mexican as well. So absolutely. Brilliant book really enjoyed it. Artwork is incredible, is substantial, is a big book and it's just the quality of the artwork is maintained throughout. Um, really recommend it. and yeah, as I say, hopefully Pedro will be on the show a little bit later on because that will be brilliant. Just a few complexities with things like time difference. Things that have happened. This podcast knows. No. Geographical boundaries. We will sorted out. I can't believe it last week. I forgot to talk about the podcast. New look. The logo, pink and orange. Yeah, really pleased with that. Uh, I hope like it too. Again, we'd love to hear some feedback on that positive only, at the Padlet is back up as well. It's stacked up with Emma Reynolds and now Sayra's. Recommendations and everything that she's mentioned in this episode will also be on that. And we add to that every week. If you would like to support the podcast, keep the, keep us on the airwaves. Then please do. You can go to our Ko-fi site to support the podcast by either buying me a comic or buying my comics. which are for sale on there too. And that site is ko-fi SB. K. K O hyphen F i.com/lucy SB as usual I'll share details of each episode on Twitter. At my Twitter, which is at Lucy underscore Braidley. And you can sport comic, boom. On instagram at comic underscore boom under school podcast i'd love to see you there i also putting up some recommendations every now and again as well trying to make that feed a little bit more interesting and putting things i'm reading up that if the eagle eyed amongst you will notice that Often one reading is related to somebody that's going to be on the podcast in the future so a good way to find out who's coming on if you could write a review i'd absolutely love it Share, give a personal Recommendation to a friend or a colleague or helps the podcast get into the ears of like-minded and interested people the algorithms they love a review so please do do that if you have a chance All that remains for me to say is thanks to LICAF for connecting me with creatives for the first few episodes of this season You've been listening to comic boom produced and hosted by me Lucy Starbuck Braidley Thanks for listening