Comic Boom - Comics in Education- Comics and Climate Change with illustrator Emma Reynolds

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Hello, and welcome to comic boom, the comics and education podcast. If you're interested in the ways that comics can be used in education, then this is the podcast for you. My name is Lucy Starbuck Braidley. And each week I'll be joined by a fellow educator and academic, a librarian or a creator of comics to discuss their journey into comics and provide some inspiration to influence your practice. Welcome back to season three of comic. Boom, everyone really excited to be here. There's so much lined up for this season. A lot of comics creators. Some, academics and former teachers, and we'd love to have some more teachers onto the podcast sharing their practice. So if that is you and you're listening, do get in touch. Today to start the season. This episode is the first of three special episodes that we are running in collaboration with the lakes, international comics, art festival, or LICAF as it's known. LICAF is a comic art spectacular held in the Lake district, every autumn from the 30th of September to the 2nd of October this year. And in the run-up to that very special event, which I'll be going along to really excited to go and see all the different exhibitors and speakers at that event at the end of the month. But in the run-up to LICAF this year, we'll be featuring three different comics creators one a week The first of those comics creators is Emma Reynolds, an illustrator and author based in Manchester. Her latest book drawn to change the world. 16 youth climate activists, 16 artists is a middle grade graphic novel with each activists, biography illustrated by an acclaimed artists from around the world. It's got extensive information in the back of that, including interviews with the activists. You've got the comics themselves, which are telling the journey of each. A young person and how they came to be a climate activist is really, really rich text. Loved it. And it's really focused on The interconnectedness of the kind of global climate movement. I talk about that in today's conversation with Emma, you may also recognize Emma's name, from her picture book Amara and the bats, which is about bat conservation. And Emma also in 2019 kickstarted, the kid lit for climate. initiative, with lots of illustrators and authors. Coming together in solidarity to. Highlight the work of youth climate strikes going on around the world. I love this conversation with Emma. She knows so much about climate change. She's produced an absolutely brilliant book. I can't recommend it enough. Here's what Emma had to say.

Lucy: 2:55

Hello, Emma. Welcome to Comic Boom.

Emma: 2:57

Hello. Thanks so much for having me. I'm honored to be here.

Lucy: 2:59

You are very, very welcome to start us off. Can you tell me a little bit about your journey as a comics reader? First of all, where did that all start for you?

Emma: 3:09

Yeah, so I grew up, um, like many people my age, reading the Beano, so I was obsessed with the Beano. I absolutely loved it. I was a massive tomboy, so I loved, Dennis the Menace, and I loved Ivy the terrible, and all of the naughty things they got up to. And I just thought, oh, how can they get away with, all these things? I thought it was, really, really fun. Yeah, I absolutely loved reading, growing up. I would devour books, when I was, in primary school. I loved books about magic and adventure. And in early secondary, I was obsessed with, the Doom Spell books by, cliff McNish and Witch Child by Celia Reese were a couple of favorites that really stood out to me. I really like Michael Morpurgo as well. And when I got to GCSEs, I sort of stopped reading for a while. I think I found the leap from what was considered children's books at the time. That what, as far as I can remember, it just went straight from children's books, to adult. There wasn't really like a kind of teen or middle grade or any of that section in like the early two thousands. and I found. The themes of what was considered adult books really boring. Um, so I then I was like kind of embarrassed to still be reading like what was considered a lower level, even though I had a high reading level. So yeah, I just kinda stopped reading for a while. But then in, uh, sixth form, I came across a book in my school library that I really wasn't expecting to find. And it was called, It completely changed, my life, really.'cause I thought, oh my goodness, what is this? I didn't know comics could be like this or about these things. that wasn't a superhero. And yeah, just, that got me back into reading basically.

Lucy: 4:45

That's amazing. So it was really integral to bringing you back into something that you'd loved when you were younger

Emma: 4:50

Yeah, and I also just stopped caring what people thought of it and just read what I wanted.

Lucy: 4:54

Yeah. There is that as well. And in terms of, your work as an illustrator. When did that interest of expressing yourself visually, where did that start for you? And, and, was that kind of a journey that was running parallel to your reading journey, or, or were they intertwined?

Emma: 5:09

yeah, that's a really good question. So for me, art has always, always been there and that didn't ever stop. So I was always drawing, always loved drawing characters in like the early two thousands when, uh, manga and anime came over to the west in a big way. I loved drawing anime, um, And things like that. And yeah, I've just always, always loved art and that's what I was kind of pursuing. But it wasn't until sixth form and then into uni where I considered writing and illustrating again.'cause that's what I really wanted to do growing up was make, write and illustrate my own books since I was about five. And yeah, it sort of came full circle, but art's always been there that I've always loved drawing.

Lucy: 5:52

And where would you say you most draw inspiration from in terms of visual and storytelling? Really. Who, who are the big players in your reading diet that you find really, really inspirational?

Emma: 6:03

Yeah, I love that question. so growing up, Raymond Briggs is a huge influence on me, both with storytelling and with the visuals. The kind of dot eyes and rosy cheeks that's sort of like deep, deeply embedded in my soul. And you can kind of see that in my work. I think, in a kind of timeline of influences, it's kind of Raymond Briggs forever. And then, uh, early in university when I studied illustration with animation, I was really, really heavily influenced by Dave McKean. Which looking back I'm like, some of it, um, is very, very influenced by it, but, Yeah, with a, with a whiff of, of Raymond Briggs always. Um, and I became very interested in Shaun Tan's work. I absolutely love his stuff. And, Isabelle Arsenault, as well as another influence, the comic Jane, the Fox and Me is a kind of forever favorite. I love that book. so yeah, comics and storytelling and picture books have, have always kind of stayed my favorite. Inspiration really. I still read them the most now.

Lucy: 7:04

We'll ask you at, at the end of the podcast, you'll be asked for, for one single book recommendation. Issue, but you can kind of do a bit of a workaround by dropping lots of names of comics throughout the whole episode. So

Emma: 7:15

will.

Lucy: 7:17

what kind of things are you reading at the moment?

Emma: 7:19

Oh, so at the moment, I've been extremely busy after a very stressful year and I haven't read as much, um, in recent years, but I have been getting back into it recently. and a recent one I've really enjoyed was, expedition Backyard by Rosemary Mosco, and Binglin Hu uh, just thought it was absolutely delightful. I really, really enjoyed it. I also read prince and the Dressmaker. Recently, I'm probably saying that title wrong. But it was, that was really, really wonderful. Yeah, I've read a lot of, a lot of picture books as well. I can't list them all, but

Lucy: 7:49

love a picture book. I really, really, really love looking at picture books. I'm on some illustrator, Patreons, and, one of them, Sarah Dyer, I think. Um, she does a, like a Zoom call and everyone just shows different picture books and it is amazing. I love, and there's lots of people from all around the world, so you see like European ones and American ones and just things that you wouldn't normally, come across that aren't necessarily published in England. And I, yeah, I really enjoy that. It's, yeah, really

Emma: 8:16

I am going to Bologna, for the first time next year and I cannot wait to come back with a suitcase full of books. Yeah.

Lucy: 8:22

That's really exciting. I wanna take you back a little bit to, your school experience. You've already said that this is kind of your dream, from a very young age, something that you saw yourself doing. But how did. Your school experience support you? Or what, what did you find most useful in terms of achieving that goal?

Emma: 8:43

starting from primary, I found primary school quite tough. I think it makes a lot more sense why seeing as in recent years I've realized I'm neurodivergent and I'm like, oh,

Lucy: 8:54

Yeah.

Emma: 8:54

that makes a lot of sense with a lot of my childhood and adult years. But, it was a very, very creative school, which was good for me'cause I loved art. So that was really, really good. I would say in secondary school I just kept doing art because I like doing it in my free time. but no shade to my art teachers as people. But the curriculum I. I found incredibly stifling for art and I really, really hated art lessons. In secondary. I thought it was just pretty much whack a piece of fruit in the middle. Go draw it and then we're all gonna do exactly the same thing to develop that into a collage. And I just thought, this is rubbish. I hate it.

Lucy: 9:32

core memories of GCSE art was like I knew, right? I have to have four ideas to start with. Then I have to whittle them down, even though, you know, from the start, which one you wanna do, and I have to whittle them down to a pretend short list of two. And it's, yeah, it's a very manufactured process, isn't it?

Emma: 9:48

indeed. Luckily though I had incredibly, incredibly good, English and media and film teacher, so that's what I loved in school. So, um, I'm a classic kind of, uh, someone who loved their English teacher'cause they were incredibly inspiring. I had them all the way up till sixth form where I studied. Media, film and, and I did art, but I didn't particularly enjoy it. But I knew I wanted to do it as a degree, which is what I

Lucy: 10:14

So you did an art, did you do a fine art degree or did you do illustration? What was your

Emma: 10:19

Uh, no. I did, illustration, uh, with animation, but the animation part was pretty much non-existent. So I mainly focused on illustration and that's when I fell in love with, the process of making picture books and the kind of visual, literacy and the interplay between word and image. And that's what I. Became a real special interest of mine and I wrote my dissertation on how picture books are for all ages and the benefits of it in education. That's what I'm really passionate about, still

Lucy: 10:46

Amazing. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think, just. Using picture books with older children, you know, I'm a primary school teacher, so older children for me is. You know, 10 year olds, that's the old ones, 10, 11. Um, but yeah, you just, you can, they're so powerful. They're so rich. There's such an amazing discussion and so much thought goes into the creation of them that there's so much to unlock when you, when you're looking at them as a reader. I just think it's a great resource and underused.

Emma: 11:16

exactly. And like when, when I did film a media studies, that's when, even though it was moving image, we learn about, you know, what does. The colors mean, how is the narrative, working? Is it linear? Is it non-linear? And we, I learned so much that really, really helped me learn about visual literacy, for picture books, which, and comics, which is what I do now. So yeah, I'm really passionate about picture books being for everyone because. Learning about visual literacy when we live in such a visual world, is so, so important and it can increase people's confidence who aren't necessarily as high literary readers. and I'm really kind of against this whole pictures are just a stepping stone for purely literary works that's just a load of load of rubbish. So, yeah. Um, I'm really, really interested in that.

Lucy: 12:04

We had, on in season one of Comic Boom, we had, Neil Cohn, a, visual linguist. Uh, Professor, visual linguist. I don't know, I'm probably, I'm, I can't remember his title. A very clever, sciencey person Who spoke about how actually, we think of images as being, you know, inferior to the written work. That actually it's a whole combined, communication system and they're completely interwoven. It isn't, it isn't. How our brain responds to them. Oh, the word is the most important. And the picture's secondary is actually all part of a really complex, system of communication.

Emma: 12:41

Absolutely. And of course we draw before we can write.

Lucy: 12:44

Yeah, exactly. And we draw naturally and innately. Without having to be taught. Obviously you can learn particular skills but the actual act of drawing is something that humans do, all around the world spontaneously. It's kind of something that is developmental, whereas writing is something we have to be taught because it's not, it's, it's not natural

Emma: 13:04

Yeah, exactly.

Lucy: 13:05

Yeah. Big up drawing. You have woven in, a message throughout your work as well in terms of the themes of environmentalism of the natural world, protecting it as a sort of really important thread that kind of brings your work together. Was that also something that was Inbuilt from the start, or is that something that developed as you became aware of things that were happening in the world? What was the journey of that focus for you?

Emma: 13:33

That's a really nice question because it wasn't something, I kind of got my agent and I was like, right, I'm gonna have an environmental themed career. It didn't really happen like that, but it sort of happened naturally in that way. So when, when I was in primary school, a new girl joined and we became best friends and it was amazing. And we came up with, something called the Rhino Trust when we're on, on a school trip.'cause we wanted to look after the rhinos that didn't seem to get as much attention as the cuter animals. And so we are on the school bus in primary. We like made like a logo and we made all these craft things and sold them to raise money, um, to adopt a rhino. and I think that's kind of what inspired my picture book, Amara and the Bats, which is all about bat conservation and kind of raising money to build some bat boxes. And yeah, so something I've always been passionate about, kind of if I see a, an injustice I'll, I'll want to do something. and I think that's how Kidlit for Climate started, in response to that. So it is something I've always cared about. And being in nature and animals is, has always been an interest of mine. So to combine them has been a real joy.

Lucy: 14:51

Can you tell us a little bit more about the Kid Lit for Climate Campaign? I'd love to hear more about it.

Emma: 14:55

it all started back in February, 2019 when the youth climate activist, um, strike school strike for climate started to come. And it might be hard to think about this now because they're seen in a different light, but at the time they were getting really, really bad press and in a now deleted video. I think on the B B C, I distinctly remember a man shouting at a young girl to go back to school. and it just really angered me that these young people weren't being taken seriously. So I wanted to do something in my field, which is making children's books, to make a difference. And I thought, what can I do? When am I going to do something? so I went to the gym, had an epiphany on the treadmill,

Lucy: 15:37

As

Emma: 15:38

and yeah, and I thought, Okay. What if I asked lots of illustrators to illustrate, an image of a protestor in solidarity with these youth climate strikers? So I went home, I was supposed to be doing other work. Oops. Um, in a kind of, hyper focus and like I drew the logo, set up the socials, set up a brief on my website, and I emailed the about 30 illustrators. Saying, I've thought of this thing, would you like to make one and use this hashtag and then we'll put them all in one big image together for the first global climate strike. so I thought I would get about 15 or 30 and I'd put them in one big image. But in a week I think I've been sent a thousand and then, yeah, it just exploded. And like a few months later there was like several thousand and I've completely lost count now'cause the hashtag's got a life of its own. but yeah, it just went completely crazy. Everyone was like, finally I have some way of kind of showing like their pain and their distress for what's happening, in a visual way. And it was just a really, really lovely. Way to get the art community involved. And since then, you know, there's been a huge explosion in climate literature. There's lots and lots of books about it, which is fantastic. It was just a really, really lovely campaign. And it's definitely over 50 countries involved. And I'd say perhaps 10,000 by now, I'm not sure. But that's really, really, Yeah, introduced me to lots of amazing artists around the world, which

Lucy: 17:05

Yeah. And so has that experience of starting that campaign directly led on to your new book that's coming out in September, drawn to Change the World. Is that kind of part of that story of how this book came, came to be?'cause there's different links there in terms of the content.

Emma: 17:23

So I always thought, wouldn't this be great if we had some of these, protester illustrations in a book? But I knew, always knew I didn't want it to be just about here's a load of adult artists kind of responding to the youth climate activists. I wanted to bring it back to the reason why we did the campaign in the first place, which was to show solidarity and highlight, What these young people are doing and saying. So originally I pitched it in 2020 or late 2019, as a kind of single image of an activist on one side and then information about them on the other. And then I was gonna involve lots of different artists. But, the editor who was interested, my editor Megan Ilnitski, who works at Harper Alley. In the US she said, what if we made each bio a comic? And I was like, okay. So I then did one of them as a comic and sent it over in a new pitch, and that's what ended up being our book. So yeah, that's, that's how it all started. And it's 16 artists illustrating 16 youth climate activists from all around the world.

Lucy: 18:27

It's a brilliant, I would just like to say I really, really, really enjoyed it. I thought it, yeah, it was Just brilliantly done. I love the balance of you've got those comics and you've also got kind of really practical information about what people can actually do and think how they can start to think about making changes, in the world themselves. And I, I just, I, I loved all that sort of context around it as well. It felt really meaningful to have all of that together. So you, were the editor of the collection as well, or, or you, what, how do you, your role now, I dunno how the words, is

Emma: 19:02

I don't dunno the exact term. I vague. I, I wrote everything. I wrote the front matter, back matter and all of the bios, and I was sort of project managing it with my editor and the two designers and people behind the scenes who work very hard but never get the credit they deserve, basically. So it was like a huge, huge team effort.

Lucy: 19:21

you wrote all of the scripts for all of the different, um,

Emma: 19:23

Yeah. Um,

Lucy: 19:24

Comics within. And then you, did you go out and invite particular artists to be involved? How'd you go around selecting those people?'cause if you had like 10,000 different, um, pictures to start with, what was that process?

Emma: 19:36

person? So for selecting the artists, some of them I knew I wanted to work with from the beginning. Because I knew them a little bit, we chatted on Instagram and things like that and I'd just been a fan of the work for a long time. So I think I always knew Anoosha Syed was gonna be involved. And Margarita Kukhtina, I always knew that they were gonna be involved. And Victoria Maderna and Federico Piatti, so some of them I knew, from Kidlit for Climate and some of them, I'd known for longer, like Erin Hunting and I was really excited to, got to work with her and some of them, we sought out specifically for the book. In terms of actually selecting the activists, I knew the activists I wanted to have for a while'cause I've been following their kind of activism journey since 2019.

Lucy: 20:25

I know there's an interview with some of the activists at the end. but, have you been in contact with all of them or have you just done research around them? in order to, tell their story? Are they aware of their kind of existence in book form?

Emma: 20:38

So, as far as possible, I contacted all the activists I could. So some of them are not contactable. there's no way to contact them, either they're incredibly busy, or there's no kind of way to contact them that I could, that I could find. But I'd probably say about half of them I did contact. So some of them, I interviewed, like Arshak Makichyan and Iqbal Badruddin Jamal, and then I dmd a few other ones or did stuff via email. but for the ones that I couldn't interview, I did extensive social media trawling. I read everything I could find about them online. I watched all of the videos, like all of their social media videos and made. I've probably filled a notebook per activist, I think in research that took a really long time. And I think the hardest thing for all of them was, one staying up to date as much to print date as I could, because obviously they're doing things all the time. It's incredibly current and like everything in the book. we'd get new information on like, stats about the climate, or like a huge event would happen, another climate catastrophy would happen, and it was just a constant trying to stay on top of it and add it into the timeline or add it into their bio. Like, and I had to kind of set myself a cutoff point before print so that I could make it as current as possible, but still meet our deadline. and for each activist, we only had, four pages, so two spreads per activist of. Imagery. And then I had a couple of pages where I could write. Since then, they have been doing this, this, and this. Um, so that was the biggest challenge, was squeezing in all the incredible things they've done through their whole lives into four pages. So it's, it's a little, wordy. it was kind of a, a balance between including what I needed to and not kind of filling this. The whole page is with tons of texts kind of thing. So I hope we've struck a balance.

Lucy: 22:28

Yeah. Yeah. I, I think it works brilliantly. when the artists that were involved were creating their pages, would they send drafts through to you to kind of comment on, or were you kind of seeing it a little bit further on? Was it, what was that kind of dialogue like?

Emma: 22:44

It was really interesting actually. I'd never written a, a comic for someone else to illustrate. So what, because I think visually I basically thumbnailed everything, to check it would physically fit'cause it was such a tight, space to fit so much info. So I, I thumbnailed it. Not super detailed, but kind of just like blob people thumbnail the panel so that I could check it fit, and then I reverse engineered that into a script. But I didn't send the artists my thumbnails'cause I wanted them to interpret it however they wanted to. So once I'd sent the script, they will then send me their roughs, which we would then go over with me, Megan, and the designers. And then we'd give a couple of comments and then, they'd send back, the final and then we had to do final tweaks where we have the letterer has to put all the words into the bubbles and we have to make tiny tweaks to check, everything's fitting and it doesn't look too tight or too, too much space around the bubble. So it's a lot of back and forth and, I couldn't have done it without, without the team'cause there was just so much, admin involved as well as the time it takes for everyone to make a four page comic.

Lucy: 23:49

one of the things that I really noticed as I was reading was this kind of sense of

Emma: 23:54

of

Lucy: 23:56

the role of social media. you've got youth activists from all around the world and they're often, campaigning about things which are very personal to their community and very specific local issues, but also that link into this kind of global movement and this the role of social media in I guess, supporting them. And that this, especially when, you know, some people are in, countries where it's very difficult to protest and the empowerment of social media and just knowing that there's other people around the world doing the same thing. Is that, thread that flows through it, something that you discovered as you were researching them or something you were kind of aware of from the beginning? This kind of, the, the balance between, I guess the global movement and the kind of very local. Aspects of climate activism.

Emma: 24:45

I am really happy you noticed the kind of thread flowing through of them on social media. So because I've been kind of following them for so long online and, doing all this research and basically making a timeline of when they started, when they met each other.'cause a lot of them do know each other and have met at different rallies and they've met, either they've interacted on social or they've been at panels at COPA together and things like that. So I kind of made a thread of all of them. On in my notebooks and,

Lucy: 25:15

imagining it on a wall with like red wool, like

Emma: 25:18

not, not quite that, but prob probably would've been helpful, but with a manic look in my eye. But, um, yeah, so like I. I also, the order of them in the book was important, so I wanted to,'cause something I really wanted to make sure was that we didn't start with Greta, like her influence is massive. She's done incredible, incredible work. But I really wanted to make it clear that that's not where, you know, youth activism started. It started decades ago with indigenous activists, but the activists in this, in this book, I wanted to start with, In the time when they began and then flow through to when Melati and Isabel Wijsen started their activism. And then Jamie Margolin and Jerome Foster worked on the, this is zero hour campaign, which proceeded, Greta's, Fridays for Future Campaign. And then it kind of just goes from there. So I didn't tell the artists to speak to each other in terms of make sure you, uh, mention. This activist and have their picture. It was just in the script and I hoped that, I'm really glad it, it's come across that, um, you know, different artists will be illustrating other activists because they have an overlap with when they met. So I'm glad it has this kind of thread that pulls, that pulls through them and, you can see when they overlap and meet each other throughout this timeline

Lucy: 26:40

No. Yeah, it's really cool. I think it works really well. so you illustrated the Greta chapter yourself. Um, did, she's obviously a very high profile. Was that. helpful or was that actually a bit of a challenge in terms of trying to, I don't know, approach it in a new way or, I dunno.

Emma: 27:00

It was really challenging, mainly'cause she's done so much. I mean, they've all done so much. I could fill a graphic novel with each of them just on their own. it was incredibly, incredibly hard to pick out which point of Greta's journey as well, because obviously I've, I've done from when she began, but that's only a very small part of, what she's achieved. But I thought it was important to talk about how Friday for Future began, because that is so important to how many of the other activists started their activism as well. So I chose to focus on that part of the journey. And it was incredibly difficult to fit it into four pages, and in fact, because I wrote it as well, and, we had different time slots and stuff. I, I did do one additional spread. So mine's the only one that has six. And it's,

Lucy: 27:48

giving yourself

Emma: 27:49

a bit sneaky. I was like, oh, there's a little bit of extra room. It's fine.'cause I'm getting, uh, I've got more time to do it. So yeah, I, I added one more spread, which is I hope, a kind of nice spread in the middle of the book. That's a huge aerial shot of all of the people marching, all these millions of people and the speech. And I, I just think it was important to have that breathing room because that's when historically, uh, the global week for future, which was 20th to 27th, of September, 2019, is the biggest global. climate protest in history where over 7.6 million people came together. So I really wanted that moment in the book. See, I got a cheeky little extra spread.

Lucy: 28:31

It's

Emma: 28:32

Um,

Lucy: 28:32

to draw though, something with that many.

Emma: 28:34

yes, it's, it's lots of, lots of dots, but you can imagine they are very detailed people. But yes, thank goodness I didn't have to draw their faces.

Lucy: 28:47

You've said that you are very visual and you started off with kind of thumbnails and, and then worked backwards. So is it hard to get that kind of balance between words and images and to know when to lean into one versus the other? I dunno if it's a conscious thing

Emma: 29:02

I think when you have all the space in the world, I would definitely have spread it out more and had a few more kind of pregnant pauses. But, I did the best I could within, the very limited four pages. It was a time budget and artist availability thing where we said write four pages and like obviously we had to keep within a certain page count. So, yeah, it was kind of, I, I really like the puzzle solving aspect of that. And I like the kind of page limitation in picture books as well, where you only have a certain amount of spreads to tell the story. So it was about pairing things down as much as I could while still giving the information. So, I'm not sure if this is the best project for me to talk about word and image balance in terms of I tried to fit in as much as I could without crowding the page basically. Um, but if I had, More space. I would, just have a little bit more for conversational back and forths and like more zooming on faces to kind of show the emotional journey. But'cause we, it was very much a kind of whistle stop tour of what they've done with and just focusing on like one tiny moment, and then spanning sometimes years. I hope that it's kind of balance enough. Given the restrictions

Lucy: 30:11

no, it, I think it works really well and there's always gonna be, those kind of constraints isn't, isn't there? Which is where the, the kind of, the creativity happens.

Emma: 30:19

Yes. And everyone did an amazing job, um, not making things look too crowded. So I'm very, very pleased with what we've made.

Lucy: 30:28

I think the book does a really good job of providing the kind of the supporting information and, ideas as well where people who will be I'm sure really inspired by what they've read can, can go on to do for themselves. it feels really empowering to read and, you know.

Emma: 30:45

I'm glad, I'm glad, it does.

Lucy: 30:47

is, yeah. You, you some, I mean, sometimes when you're about to start reading something like that, am I gonna be really just really depressed and feel like overwhelmed?'cause like environment, you know, climate change, is it like something that causes people anxiety, isn't it? And it can feel like it's something that as an individual you haven't got very much power to do anything about. and I think that young people, You know, there's, there's studies showing that this is something that young people are concerned about and do feel worried about, so, what can young people do or what can teachers do to encourage young people to, get involved, and start making changes or campaigning for change in the world?

Emma: 31:21

Yeah, so there's a lot, lot, lot, lot to say on this. Firstly, I think the narrative has definitely shifted from our children's future to right now. Like it's happening

Lucy: 31:31

for sure.

Emma: 31:32

and even in the last couple of years it was very much, oh, it's a global south problem. Uh, no, it's literally everywhere. Even UK like our house. Leaked recently in the flash flood. Like it's, it's affecting, everyone. No one is untouched anymore. And that's something that wasn't the case when I started writing this book, and now that's already

Lucy: 31:52

Yeah, completely agree. And it's so easy for people to say like, oh, the weather's really bad this summer. And not, and

Emma: 32:00

like, yeah, there's a

Lucy: 32:01

yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, that thing that people have been talking about. That's this, isn't it?

Emma: 32:07

So yes, it's incredibly overwhelming, um, and scary. And we should be, we should be scared, but, but not so scared that we fall into doom. And something that's really, really important to tell young people, I think, is that the news is negative for a reason. Bad news gets more clicks, more clicks and more, newspapers off the shelves, clicks gets more advertising revenue. Also, if you fall into doom, you don't rise up because you think what's the point? And if you don't rise up, you allow those systems that are harmful and during the harm to continue. And so in a way it's another form of, suppression and oppression of people because they want you to give up. They want to steal your hope and your future because they only care about short-term profit. And that's a lot to take in. But the point is there are good things happening, but you have to seek it out. And this is an opportunity for us to. Imagine a better, more equitable future. And it's, that's exciting. And it's not just, oh, we have to save the planet, we're all gonna burn. Like, no, it's, it's not just about changing,

Lucy: 33:15

how, institutional structural racism and sexism is also all part of the same

Emma: 33:24

the same. It's all linked.

Lucy: 33:25

Yeah, and that came through really strongly. There's some really key sort of stop me in my tracks stats in there where I thought, oh, yeah. You know,

Emma: 33:35

Yep. Those environmental racism.

Lucy: 33:37

yeah.

Emma: 33:38

Misogyny, white supremacy. It's all linked to these power structures that keep us, in these places. So in a way, it's not just about, Making a transformed future for nature and making, sure that we can not make things worse than they already are. It's also about imagine if everyone could thrive. Imagine if everyone had the resources they need to survive and, not just survive, but thrive. So in terms of what young people can do, this book isn't about. Putting everything on young people's shoulders for a start. It's definitely not about that. It's about showing how amazing these young people are and that young people have agency. They're not just an inspiration. They actually do have, really useful ideas. They should be at the decision making tables with indigenous and, people of color at the center, making those decisions. and there's the main thing to think about when thinking, what can I do? Is, you don't have to start from the ground up. You don't have to make your own, organization. You can join many of the existing ones who need your help. So there's lots of resources in the back, but a great place to start is Youthtopia which is founded by, two of the activists in the book, Melati and Isabel Wijsen it's got tons of resources on how to be a change maker and what you can do, and I think another really important thing for young people to know is It's not just about the person holding the microphone, it's. Every single person can do something and every single person has a role. So I want you them to think about like, what sort of other people go into an organization, like the people who make, the food to nourish the team, the people who, paint the signs, the people who are good at organizing and emailing and spreadsheets. Like there's, everyone is needed. Every single role is needed. People who are good at maths, people who are good at science, people who are good at sport, people are good at music, everything. So, it's very, it's very big and very overwhelming, but I think it's, a chance to make a transformed better world and I think that's exciting and I think hope comes from action. So by taking action, it'll give us hope.

Lucy: 35:44

Completely agree. If we just shift the conversation a little bit onto the Lakes International Comics Arts Festival, because you are on, an episode, which is an exciting mashup. A crossover of Comic boom. Comic boom and together, as you are going to be at the festival this year. So, what does that involve? Uh, what is it like, what do you have to do? Lots of preparation. Will you be tabling? I'd love to know what's what, what's gonna be on your table?

Emma: 36:16

table. Yeah. So lots of prep will be going on. I need to order a big roller banner that I've never done before, but I want one this time. So I've, tabled thought bubble and MacPOW and lots of other things before, but I've never been to, the lakes. So I'm really excited to go. I will be prepping lots of things to sell on my table. I'll be selling books. I'll have my picture book and prints, pins, stickers,

Lucy: 36:41

The pins are so

Emma: 36:42

of fun stuff.

Lucy: 36:43

a little look on your shop now. So cute. my daughter will definitely want one of those. Um, yeah, and I was going to get her a copy of the book, but I think we'll wait and go and buy it from you and so she can get it from you

Emma: 36:54

I can

Lucy: 36:55

at the

Emma: 36:55

and draw on

Lucy: 36:56

exactly. That'd be really cool. and have you had to look at who else is going, who are people to watch out for at LICAF this year? Have you got any suggestions?

Emma: 37:06

have and I prepared a list so I don't miss anyone's name out. so I'm really excited to see that, Dave McKean is there, so I've never met him. Is that with Cool. Um, ladies do comics are gonna be there, so I'm doing, a

Lucy: 37:19

Oh yeah. I saw you were doing the, the Monday night session. I like to go to that, so I'll definitely

Emma: 37:25

yeah, do you come along? I'm excited. Um, Mark Jackson, who runs MacPOW and Room for Comics is gonna be there. Nice to see him again. And then there's lots of Twitter pals and friends of mine, exhibiting also, like Alex Moore, Joe Latham, Lyndsey Green, and Shaun Martland, who I can't wait to catch up with. And it's always nice to meet new people too, so I'm very excited.

Lucy: 37:43

Brilliant is gonna be a big old get together for you.

Emma: 37:46

Yeah.

Lucy: 37:47

One of the questions that we thought to bring a special flavor to the LICAF Comic Boom episodes was, do you think that comics can change the world?

Emma: 38:00

A hundred percent, yes I do. visual literacy in terms of. It's just, oh, I can't just say I can't speak'cause I care about this so much. Um, it's just the perfect way to communicate. and that's been shown historically. And I just wanna give a shout out to Manchester Museum who did an amazing refurb recently and they had these incredible comics, in one of their sections about, tough topics. And I just thought, what an amazing. Way to, explain this to people and yeah, I do think comics can change the world. I do think that, books in general can change the world and art and all of these wonderful things. It's universal communication, and I just think it helps people understand topics in an accessible way, in a very unique way. And it's really exciting, what the future holds.

Lucy: 38:50

Brilliant. So we are coming to the end of the episode. It's amazing to talk to you. Thank you so

Emma: 38:59

so much.

Lucy: 38:59

We always like to pick out a few takeaways, points that educators listening might be able to put into action or just to think about. What would you like educators to be thinking about

Emma: 39:12

So I would start by going to climate venn dot info and asking students to make their own climate venn. So this is an amazing, um, Webpage set up by Ayana Elizabeth Johnson. Um, and it's about how you specifically, you can help with the climate and it has to be something that you're interested in so that, it brings you joy and so that you don't burn out. So you make one circle that what brings you joy, one for what you're good at and one what needs doing. And in the middle is your in unique climate action. So that's a really great starting point. Um, yeah, educators get yourselves the book. It's not that radical. by Mikaela Loach and the Intersectional Environmentalist by Leah Thomas and read them. They are superb and essential reading. And also get your students to think about all the different roles that were involved and reflect on what the actors have done, the different challenges they face.

Lucy: 40:11

I think those are great. I think, reading around the subject, becoming informed is just such an important piece of the puzzle for educators it's understanding how to frame things or how to frame conversations and having and coming from an informed perspective to deal with the questions that might arise or, you know, the issues that people are facing in, in your community. I think that's, that's a really good shout.

Emma: 40:35

Yeah. It's about start locally, think globally as well. Like, just because the things that you do might not make the national news, it doesn't mean it's, doesn't mean it's not important. It's all these drops making a wave. And it's not about getting famous. It's not about, you know, being an influencer. It's about community and. Our culture has become very individualized. That's what the people in power who control these things want us to do. They don't want us to work in community because community is powerful. So that's something to really focus on is you can't do this alone. Don't do this alone.'cause you will burn out and it's too much work together. And that's how we will succeed.

Lucy: 41:16

Brilliant. Very inspiring. Uh, you've given us a couple of books in that section as well, but if we were to add one comic or to our to be read piles tomorrow, what would you recommend? End.

Emma: 41:32

So it was really hard to just choose one, but I chose one with a bit of an activist flare just to go with the subject today. So I would like to recommend go with the Flow by Lily Williams and KarenSchneemann. And it's about, friendship and period activism. So it's a middle grade book, but older primary would probably, enjoy it too. So there's never enough, free period products in the toilet, at their school. But there's always a budget for sports. So, rally together and try to make a difference. But it's also a wonderful book about friendship. Um, it involves L G B T Q I A themes. And all the different types of periods. So like it delves into things like endometriosis. But it's all in a really accessible, fun way. And it's just a really lovely book and the sequels out on October 10th, look on the bright Side and I'm really looking forward

Lucy: 42:23

Oh, cool. Yeah, I had my, my daughter has that book and really, really enjoyed it, so that is a great one. Your book made me think of a book that I, I normally do my own like recommendation but in a recorded afterwards, but I dunno why today. I just feel like saying it now. Um, I'm just gonna grab it. It's on the shelf behind me. Your book made me think of a book that my team at work actually bought me, for my birthday. You know you found your people when they buy your book like this for your birthday, it's movements and moments. A collection of, comics about indigenous communities and female activists, throughout, indigenous communities throughout the world. And it is really, really good. it's. Beautiful and powerful. Published by Drawn and Quarterly. Really that's gonna be my recommendation.

Emma: 43:09

I can't wait to read that. I picked that up in uh, gosh, comics recently and I can't wait to, yeah, on a visit to London. I was like, oh yeah.

Lucy: 43:16

It is. Yeah, I think you are definitely gonna love it. Definitely up your street. But thank you so much for this conversation. It has been brilliant on so many levels. I have really enjoyed it and I look forward to meeting you in person at Lakes International Comic Art

Emma: 43:32

Yeah, I can't wait. Thanks so much for having me on. I'm really, really, uh, happy to talk about it all and, thank you for all your wonderful, insightful questions.

43:42

There you have it brilliant episode. I love speaking to Emma. She's clearly so knowledgeable about the subject of climate change. The issue surrounding it, the intersectional nature of it, how it's linked into so many different inequalities. And it just speaks to her expertise and why she is exactly the right person to bring a book like drawn to change the world. Into existence. So thank you, Emma, for being the mastermind and the brilliance behind that book, it's a great title. I'm sure you are interested in getting hold of a copy of yourself. drawn to change. The world is out on the 14th of September. So that's next week by the time that the podcast airs. Get ahold of a copy for yourselves, for your schools. It's a hugely hugely important, book I know there's other reviewers, on Twitter. I'm out in the book, blogosphere who, who heartily agree with me as well. I've already given my recommendation for this week movements and moments, which is an anthology of comics, beautiful, beautiful book. And that is published by drawn and quarterly. As usual, the podcast Padlet for season three is up and running. Which you will find in the show notes, you can find links to any of the books authors, illustrators, or resources mentioned. For every episode, I update it each time an episode comes out. So on there at the moment, you will find. Everything that Emma's mentioned, something new for season three. I don't know how this is going to go, but I have started a Ko-Fi site. So K O hyphen F I Kofi. And the link to that is in the show notes for this episode. K O hyphen F i.com forward slash Lucy SB. And on that site, should you wish to there, is there a function for you to support the podcast? I love all the conversations I get to have from running the podcast. I love putting the resource out there for people to inspire people. It's great to hear the feedback that people are enjoying it. It also has costs associated with it for hosting Each podcast episode. The websites around it and that kind of thing. So if you're in a place where you feel able to support the podcast, you've enjoyed what you've listened to. Then you can do that in two ways. On the Kofi site, you can either buy my comics. So I have two comics on there, remnants volume, one, and remnants volume two, which is called. Unraveling, side note that these are not for child readers at all they are quite dark and. Tackle adult themes. So this would just be purely for your own reading for pleasure. Should you wish to buy them? Or if you don't fancy that there's a function on there where you can buy me a comic, and donate a couple of pounds towards helping the running cost of the podcast. As usual I'll be sharing. Oh, details of each episode on X, formerly known as Twitter. That's a development since the last season of podcast. You can follow me there at Lucy underscore Braidley, or we also have a comic boom Insta account, a fledgling ever-growing gaggle of followers on Instagram though, which is really good. So that's at comic underscore boom underscore podcast. Should you wish to follow us on Instagram as well? And you find the links to each show on there. I'm glad about the Instagram guide. We started that last season because I am. Nervous about putting too many eggs in one social media basket with everything that's going on in ex formerly Twitter. So I'm keen to keep up as many different ways for people to hear about the podcast as they can keep the diversity out there in terms of how people can find out about it. So share, give a personal, personal recommendation to a friend or colleague. It all helps get the podcast into the ears of like-minded and interested people. All there is to say from me now is thank you to LICAF for their support. For this episode, lakes, international comics, art festival is just such a great institution. One of the key key events in the comics calendar in the UK. So. Really brilliant to have their support for the podcast as well. Welcome, back to season three, everyone, I hope you enjoyed this episode. As much as I did. You've been listening to comic boom, which is produced and hosted by me. Lucy Starbuck, Braidley.